V-12 Engine into 308 Build, over on Grassroots

I'll call the machine shop again tomorrow I guess but in the mean time working down the list.

The shift light is working...of course it says "Brake Failure" not "Shift"....may look for a solution to that before the tach gets reassembled

I relocated the new fuse panel a bit higher to make the cover fit better.

Then it was time to pull apart the steering column to have a look at why the headlight up/down selector was flopping/popping to down and why the wiper switch stalk has been in the door panel since I got the car.

The lights up/down part was just a matter of bending the contacts a bit but ....hmmmm ....old crumpling plastic.....not exactly sure what to do about this....I'm sure a drink will help though.



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If you're not averse to outside help - forum member Verell, at his website http://www.unobtainiumsupply.com/ , offers a rebuild service for the column switch stalks where he remolds the plastic inner parts onto the arms. Everything else is just a bandaid! A lot of people here have used that service and are extremely pleased with the results.

Here's his product list PDF: http://www.unobtainiumsupply.com/UnobtainiumSupply_Product_List.PDF

The column switch rebuild parts are on page 31, and rebuild services are page 34 - 39

Cheers,
Gordon

 

I'd forgotten Verell repaired these. I'm pondering making a metal version that really can't ever fail but sending to Verell is certainly less work for me.

 

Several cars, Ferr, Maserati etc, use these Vitaloni units so it wouldn't be a bad thing although the machining of each junction looks tedious.....

 

So after much thought I decided to see if I could just zip-tie them back together....as in weld them back together using a soldering iron and nylon zip-ties as filler. They seem fine now. I did switch from zip-ties as the filler to ABS which was easier to work with, a little lower melting point so I could keep the base material a little firmer, I kind of blended it into an alloy in the fill zone.

Next I'll make sure everything is working before I torque the main nut down....but it looks good and probably 10 or 15 cents including the spray paint I dressed up the levers with.



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mk e,
I've seen a lot of unusual repair attempts & spent a lot of time on my first one. It led directly to me starting Unobtainium! See this thread:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/107784.html

IMHO your repair method may be the 1st I've seen that has a reasonable chance of succeeding. Assuming the remaining base plastic can take the stress. If not, send the stalks to me.

We have lots of experience: Currently Unobtainium repairs 2 to 4 Ferrari switches/month! Mostly Dino, 308, & 328, but also Daytona, 330, TR & 348 & similar vintage switches. A large part of our business actually comes from Ferrari dealers all around the world!

We have had only 1 field failure since I started the business in 2003 & that was due to a bubble buried in a stalk pivot end casting!!!!

Our new switch parts are cast using a high heat deformation polyurethane that is 50% short glass fibers. Unlike the OEM plastic that dries out, becomes brittle & tries to shrink onto t he incompressible metal parts, the polyurethane composite is highly inert, chemical, & UV resistant.

 

You "TIG welded" plastic with a soldering iron and zip ties???!!!???

Amazing.

 

As soon as I saw Gordon's post I remember you did these and I had planned to send it to you....I've been working on this stupid V12 for so long now all other memories else is starting to fade.

Right now I'm just trying to get what I can to at least a functional condition so when the block comes back and the engine runs I can maybe drive it around the block for the 1st time in 13 (or 14?) years....I remember when I started on the V12 but not when I 1st pulled into the shop for the ECU upgrade that led to the V12, but its been parked a LONG time now.

Today I'll start putting fusses in and see what works and what doesn't...and call the machine shop, forgot to do that yesterday......well not completely forgot but at this point I've pretty much resigned myself to the idea that I'll be honing the cylinders so I'm partly looking for other things to do to avoid that

 

Undoubtedly the first time I've seen that. Skills

 

Filled the fuss box and everything electric seems to work....mostly. The fuss panel is all new so I was a but nervous. Haven't seen the lights up or on in many years. All the column switches seem to be working so that's good.

It took me about an hour to figure out why the radio was on but silent...I'd rewired the main power the amps to be neater so I assumed I buggered it somehow, turned out to be pin pulled out of the harness in the radio itself, probably when I pulled it to run the new wires to the dash.

Then there is the power windows which do "work"...as long as I pull firmly up while holding the switch.....its past time I pull them apart to clean and grease them. I guess that will consume the weekend.

Then there is just the issue of no engine to sort out.......

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the first door is in bits....

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Dynamat goes in way easier than it come out

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pretty sure the rear window guide is supposed to have a bolt

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Pretty sure they wires are supposed to be attached ....

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This is probably not that exciting to any non ferrari 308 owner but after about 10 hours of disassembly, cleaning, greasing, reassembly and adjusting, I got th the driver side window to go up and done without manual assistance. This one had stopped completely, even assistance no longer moved it.....the "grease" was much more a hard wax like substance than grease. I decided foolishly to pull the whole window which meant pulling the front frame....which meant cutting a couple bolts to get it out then extraction them so it could be reassembled. but it works now and just needs the door panel back on. I decided to let the broken power window go for now and jut removed the power lock stuff that has never worked....I think its suppose to unlock the passenger door when I unlock the drivers side but...I can live with out that



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Since you have them apart , worth sticking some relays in there to help? There are threads around about doing it to improve the voltage at the motor

 

Two relays switched by the up/down switches and a direct 12V supply. Saves the switches and reduces the voltage drop. Thanks to whoever did this drawing (not me)
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yeah, no doubt they could be made better......but they (1 anyway still need to do the other) do now function while the engine does not so right now my focus is elsewhere.

I do now have 5 empty relay slots now so rewiring to add relays is something that could be done neatly, I'm out of the clip-in spade connectors but other than that its just time unless I want to also add a voltage converter to send them 18 or 24V. ...$50 and the windows will move like modern windows.
https://www.amazon.com/Cllena-Converter-Voltage-Regulator-Transformer/dp/B07PY1LVSW/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=12vdc+to+24vdc+converter&qid=1609616503&sr=8-3


The whole interior will need to come out at some point which is when I'd prefer to deal with issues like this but I needed them to at least go up and down again.

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I just went and measure voltage at the window motor the drivers side is 10V down, 8.5V up. The passenger side is slower even after cleaning and about 8.5 down and 7-7.5V up. no wonder they are slow. This is with the charger on the battery so 13.7 at the battery.

The wires going to the door are decent size at 16g so that is not the issue....that leaves the switch and connectors along the way. The little solid state window accelerator really boxes they sell aren't really going to solve the problem either as the power still goes through the switch. The ground doesn't so I guess 1/2 the voltage drop which is an improvement but the right answer is the switch controlling power relays so the switch is out of the power circuit completely and the power wires get shorter. I may take a look at it today.....the front console is hitting the throttle pedal and needs attention so I'll have at least that off anyway. Fitting this means pulling new wires from the switch to the relay panel and pulling the window power wires out of the center and to the relay panel...I'm sure that are wrapped and tied....just time.

Others came to the same solution and after all my rewiring I have 5 empty relay slots....I guess I know what I'm going to due today.

 

Interesting. So the wires into the door are sufficient to carry the voltage? That would mean that the relays could be located in the center console just downstream of the switch. Also, it means just jumpering the switch tests whether it is just the switch that is causing the voltage drop.

I am surprised window races are not a “thing” at 308 gatherings.

 

Yes, and on my car there is a pretty noticeable difference
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Then there are a lot of connectors in the power path....2 in the cabin plus another in the door. None of this helps.
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Not having fun yet btw......
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Optimum answer therefore to locate the relays near the switches & run a new power feed into the door straight to the motor?

 

I don't think so....I just don't see a need for the power wires to be in the console at all. I'm unpinning the console connector and will pull the power wires back up to the relay then run new smaller signal wires down to the connector so I don't end up with splices anywhere then see how it does. If its still dropping voltage I may replace the door connectors with something modern with gold pins that just work a lot better than 40 year old tin pins. that's the plan anyway.

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I would run the new power wire plus an earth (but I grew up with English cars fighting Lord Lucas, the prince of darkness.)

 

The motor has 2 wires and polarity reverses for up/down. There will be a new ground, but off the relays. The door wires them shelves look fine....now to run the new signal wires to the switches Image Unavailable, Please Login so it can be switched

 

I'm sure these pins are available somewhere but I can almost always salve them when needed like an unplanned Sunday project. then I solder them on and its good as new.

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I was able to pull new wires through the harness which worked out nice
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I didn't have everything I needed to finish the job but I got 1 working....not too bad and certainly much improved. I forgot to put the charger on the battery so this is 12V video, its a bit faster at 13.7.

 

Getting back to the clutch switch while i wait on the connectors and relays to finish up the window....the switch I ordered is pretty worthless as it's neither M8 nor an actual switch, its 5/16 and "switch" is just the spade connector hitting thr body. Back to searching an 1 star for this pos.

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