V-12 Engine into 308 Build, over on Grassroots

Idle is 1000ish. I'm not concerned about measuring any 1 cylinder, I want to measure 2 at the same time and compare, ideally using the differential setting so adjust to 0 and move on. The cylders pulsing at differential times is the concern so I'm going to try and damp the pulses either with hose length or maybe by standing the meters off using a section of pvc pipe.....or maybe it will be fine

 

Ooo that is tricky... Phasing. Pick a cyl for reference, then it's the phasing between it and the others... Resonance and harmonic oscillations between them.. Yeah that's getting a touch beyond back of the envelope.
1k rpm
16.67hz for each cyl
12, cyl.. 60° events.. so 100hz between them.

 

Ugh, this just bugs..
Ok so a 100hz pulse is going to have a wavelength of 3.43m.. 1/4 wave resonator would be 85-86cm... But that's just for events at 60° Delta

So hopscotch from cyl to cyl in the firing order to keep the 60° phase. Seems simple enough...I think..

 

On the cylinder MAP readings I just run a rolling average in the code. I'm sure the meter has some damping i just don't know how much. The hose adds more damping. I could add a chamber to the hose, or pipe in top of the stack. Damping is the path I'm going to try 1st I think

 

• Image Unavailable, Please Login Record average is a setting, problem solved I'd guess.

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It averages over a 25 sec period?

 

It averages until you tell it to stop it think. There's min, max, average options.

 

Gotcha

 

I am with you I thought the build had strayed into string theory. . But then agin @mk e has been over my head the whole time. Makes a fun thread.

 

Alignment went just like everything goes, slow and painful but I think I I have the rear in a happy place now with right about 3deg camber and just over 1mm toe-in, both wheels pretty identically pointed along the body centerline. Yay. The plan is start very neutral on toe or 0 to slightly minus in the rear and 0 to slightly out in the front. Camber I need tire temp data to know the the right numbers, but there are right numbers to get tire temps even across the width.....toe is sort of a feel thing so near 0 until I know how it feels.
It took about 4 hours to figure out how I wanted to measure everything without buying anything and then get the measurements I was after. Camber was quick, just add about 1/3 deg on the right but toe started out at about 14mm toe-in and shims had no effect because the toe slots I put in the upper a-arm frame mount were in....I won't say the wrong direction but an unhelpful direction. So upper a-arms off, and grind 3mm in the other direction. Recheck and find toe's nothing like it was...but I got it. Front tomorrow I guess and hopefully it goes a bit quicker.
Oh, rebled the the rear brakes while the wheels were off......I saw near 0 air. I'll do the front tomorrow and it there is no air there I guess raise the pedal a bit, I can't have it go to the floor on a hard stop.

 

That's Scott not me, I prefer to just jump in without really thinking it through and deal with a consequences later

The whole conversation was really just how do you figure out what size (ID) flow meter will work best and how do you compare flows from 2 cylinders that are happening at slightly different times because each cylinder is on its intake stroke at a slightly different time. Then Scott and I go in different different directions with Scott pondering how to get perfect data and me pondering how do I make it good enough to use? That is all this was, nothing too scary really

 

Come on, we've been saying that for at least 10 years, and Mark's still got that Lincoln V12 under the bench - there's still years of fun ahead...
.

 

Anyone get the plate on that bus!

 

The front suspension just plain confused me. The caster was about 1deg? Which I refused to believe for about 12 measurements but does explain the vague feel....why it was 1deg I'm just not sure. The ball joint spacer I welded on was made the spindle 15% longer, so is should have lost roughly 15% of its caster but it lost 75% (spec is 4-5deg)???? The front is adjusted with shims on lower a-arm frame mounts. The rear mount is like 80% camber and 20% caster and the front mount like 80% caster and 20% camber some quick math and I need to offset the 2 mounts about 15mm. Luckily I had 15mm spacers in there to set the camber so leave the spacer in the rear, remove the front...but then it looses a little camber, so add 4mm to both mounts, but I also wanted to add another deg of camber, so 4mm more to both mounts and 8mm front, 23mm rear. I extended the mount bolts by 15mm I think it was, but with 23mm or spacers the washer had to come off to get the nyloc nut showing 1 full thread. So caster at 4deg, camber at 2.5deg (best I can tell) and that is all the camber I can have without an even longer bolt. I'm also into a place where adding camber reduces ride height so front ride height is 3.5" (frame to ground) unless I extend the shock or relocate a mount. Its looks really good that low, if I can drive it.

Front toe is +1mm as a starting point. Another 4+ hours of my life wasted.

Getting the printer running for the flow meters was a whole other thing. Out low on resin, but they have a newer version and who knows how old the stuff in the machine is plus the light says change the print film. I did all that but that is wouldn't read my USB drive, but its my son's printer and he made the file and wasn't home...so wait until 10pm to start what's about a 12 hour print....so this morning I'm doing forum updates instead of working while I wait.
Oh, bleed the brakes, almost no air came out. But part of the whole thing was a noise up front so good change I was distracted by that and not getting the pedal feel right in my head. I looked over the suspension pretty carefully and found nothing but then did find the the wheel weights were knocked off and there's a scrape almost all the way around the wheel....but it doesn't come close to touching anything anywhere at ant suspension compression and turn angle that I could see and I was going straight so.....I'm wondering if I left a wrench hanging on a bolt or something like that...just more front suspension confusing me.

 

The anti-dive + lowering the ball joint killed the caster! Actions have consequences.

 

The venturi meter thing looks pretty cool
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...but I decided I had very little trust in it so I just used the MAPs then silicone the bejesus out of the linkages.
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If it moves again its getting jbweld. Waiting for that to dry I started looking for the screws for the wheel wells and exhaust cover...didn't fin them but did play a couple rounds or "why the heck is this junk in my shop?".
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Played that a million times and still haven’t won.
- Dave

 

You and me both! This round I REALY lost and feel like such an idiot. I spent almost 2 hours looking through boxes for the muffler cover bolts last night and this morning I realized I'd left them at lowes
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Also last night I glued the bumper up last night, it was a little delaminated from the fire. Bumper is stretch maybe....this is a "euro" bumper reproduction that is just a light weight fiberglass copy of a bumper and saves about 30-40 lbs. I think I may have also left the bolts for this at lowes
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After the exhaust cover was on I thought I was ready for the bumper but it looks like the grommets are gone so those are ordered.
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and I think the bumper bumper shocks are broken....I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be aluminum
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I decided the stuff I have is also too heavy so I ordered some 1/16" wall and since I could only fine 1 of the 14mm bolts I bought new 8mm bolts which seem more appropriate to secure a decoration. Its kind of nice to be checking non-engine stuff off the list.

Here are what the plugs looked like this morning.
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Given this I trimmed the fuel up in 11 and down in 3,5,9,12. I warmed it up and drove around the block 3 times today making main VE table adjustments after each drive and it was pretty good on drive 3. Its still hot but here are the rear plugs
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I did nothing to the cylinder trims on 1&6 and I'm pretty sure the TB screws didn't turn.....but I'll correct the fuel on them tomorrow along with whatever I find on the front bank. Weather is sketchy this week but there is a chance that for the 1st time in 20 years Wednesday will be bring your Ferrari to work day, if not the following Monday or Tuesday maybe. There is also a push for the 1st ever bring your father's ferrari to HS day.

Just around the block I have no real sense of the new suspension sadly. Last year on the first drive 1st drive I had the shock at like 4 clicks, way too soft with these springs. Then I went full in, 18 clicks, and it was better for sure but seemed a bit harsh at speed. Now I'm at 12 clicks in...fine around the block but I need to get it out to see.

Also there is too much PS assist. with the caster up were it belongs there is a little self centering in the driveway but still nothing at 30mph. Don't in any way get me wrong, I like this WAY better than FIGHTING to turn but I want a lower assist setting....and I cleverly hid the controller behind the dash.

This morning I dropped the rear to about 3.75" to better match the front that is at 3.5" and made it in/out of the driveway without scrapping every time. I need to snap a profile pic....it looks REALLY good at this ride height.

As an aside, yesterday was summer tire on the supra day so I helped my son with that but walking between the garage where the supra is and shop where the ferrari is led to "that car is so much lower than my supra" followed by measuring and yeah, just over 8" lower

 

Is there a way to program the power assist to taper off as speed increases?

 

The short answer is yes and that has always been part of the long term plan.

The longer answer is the little controller I bought has 3 assist level options that are achieved by grounding or powering (I forget) an input wire. The instructions says set it to level 2 because that will be right and I thing that is what I did? Anyway, the ECU reads wheel speeds so I could use an output to do whatever the control needs to switch or I could put a CAN sniffer on the controller to see what it's outputting and have the ECU replace it.

The even longer answer is I really don't know exactly what the PS unit does exactly. There is an input torque sensor the best I can tell and I assume the output is proportional to the input? and the 3 levels change the slope or ration or input to output? and the lines probably cross at the factory switch points?

I could also add more caster I guess. The ball joint shims are like 2mm pre side? so moving top/bottom is 4mm that is ...ok, this just broke my brain, the sin of the angle is 0.0123456790123456790......then I noticed the "8" is missing and I felt better, but its 0.7deg. I could get about the same with upper a-arm spacers.