Bought a set of standard 250 Rods today, not got a quote. $240 each +tax (CA residence) + shipping Please quote accurate prices in the future.
Two weeks ago I got my 308 GTS/i 1982 US version back from the engine rebuild. Total costs where Euro 31.000,- What did we do? - New Tubi exhaust - New Camshaft (with more tilting) - Valve's (with new and better springs) - Revison of engine head - Revision of gear box - Cleaning fuel tanks - New cooling tank - Etc. etc. For details at parts etc. please send me an email. In fact the complete engine was rebuild only excluding the pistons. The car has now 230 HP and we will change the US ignition what will bring another 20 HP. So 250 HP is really great for this car. The last thing we will change is the Fuel injection from Bosch, we want to place a digital injection system what will bring another 30HP. Especially time was very consuming the money. The engine had no maintanance for a very long time. The car is driving very smoot now, fast in every gear and a top speed of 255 KM. Competion with a Z3 M (1st, 2nd and 3th gear) was very close, not to bad for now with the US ignition that works not very well. Bas
GREAT THREAD so can anyone confirm cost on a 250 engine rebuid how much for parts? how much for machine shop labor? and how much do mechanics charge for the 100 hours?
My 330 GT engine cost over 35K for the complete job. This was done by a Ferrari specialist, who is very experienced on V-12s. The figure is approximate because it all depends on what a "rebuild" is defined as. The engine had never been worked on, and he was gratified, as he had seen too many half-ass jobs which he had to rectify. In my case - the engine @ 60+K miles lost a "valve" (it turned out to be a valve seat which had come loose). The crank and rods were OK, all other internals were rebuillt/replaced. Liners were bored and new 9.5:1 pistons fitted. - It was strongly advised not to replace liners unless absolutely necessary. New valves (stainless), guides (custom), followers, at al. were replaced All exterior painted parts refinished Oil pump rebuilt, water pump rebuilt - but replacement parts were not satisfactory - had to do some custom work. See Tom Yang's site for a discussion on this issue. Some repair work done on the headers and shields refinished. Starter and heat shield redone. Complete Ignition and carburation rebuild. Mechanical Fuel pimp redone - spme costom work needed. Initial run-in on a dyno - followed by retorque of all and then returned to dyno for tuning and checking exhaust temperatures in operation. Reinstalled in car - engine mounts fabricated (upgraded from original) Final Tune and checking for leaks etc. (that is when we discovered the water pump problem) I am sure I left out things - I am working from memory rather than referring to many pages of receipts, and hourly time sheets. And I didn't get into the cost of redoing the radiator, air conditioner, generator, and other accessories.
I seem to always hear the figure 25 to 30K for a v12 rebuild. The final cost obviously depends on what is done and at what level of finishing you go. Rebuilding of the carbs,replacing pistons, rods,main bearings,exhaust and intake valves, grinding camshafts to original spec, and all the proper platting and machine work start to add up. I think an engine could be done for 25 to 30k, but it will not be a total restoration to "as new or better than new" condition.
A complete rebuild, including turning the crank, line boring the block, new rods and pistons, new bearings everywhere, boring the liners, rebuilds of all the accessories, etc will cost at least $50,000....and on older engines (1947 to circa 1965) where parts have to be made, figure double that!
Crosthwaite and Gardiner. http://www.candg.org/cgHome_.htm http://www.candg.org/smk_FERRARI.html Their Bugatti bits are really nice. More than a few Tipo 61's run C&G bits. They don't make Scarab parts though (inside joke here)
I just cant see how the job could cost that much. To see what 30K should buy go to ebay and type in "Yates Nascar". For 37K you get new everything, Ti rods, pins and valves, six stage dry sump. Thats better that the engine in the Koenigg. More HP than a F1 engine and 3 times the torque. I'll rebuild my daytona engine myself. You should not have to pay the same rate to clean and paint the motor as you do to assemble it. Anyone got a daytona gasket set?
The prices I mentioned are based on having a skilled shop doing the work. You could probably save half if you did it yourself...
A lot of very good points made in this thread. I will always tell people how much for the best and worst case scenario, but cant give an accurate quote until we get in there and see what we have to work with.
Unfortunately, honesty is unusual these days in the automotive repair and restoration business. I have stopped counting how many out and out fakes and replicars have been presented as "real" cars....
As the gentleman from Utah mentioned, $50K, give or take, is about the going rate for a engine rebuild and it can easily go for more. Basically, you figure $15-20K for machine work, $15K-20K for labor and $15K-20K for parts. Lampredi motors can double this. Most of what I read in this thread seems to skip the machine work. If you're going to rebuild a motor, you start at the crank and work your way out. So, you start with a line bore, crack test the components, deck the block and heads, etc., etc. Heck, why go in if you're not going to do it right. I've had several of my vintage V12s and twin-turbo V8s rebuilt. I have lots of receipts that break this all down. Just as an example ob prices, when I had my 288 GTO motor rebuilt, the valves alone, if you were to use NOS Ferrari valves, are $13K! Also, while your in there, you might as well update to better valve guides, valves, stem seals, rings, etc. A good engine builder will know what the best stuff is. I live in California, so the labor rate will be a bit higher here. Although, I haven't seen much difference in prices for great machine work and parts no matter where you live. Vintage V12s deserve great, not adequate, work. I'd like to see the bill for one of these $25K engine rebuilds to see what exactly was done, or, more importantly, what was not done. Steve
I know any number of people who have spent well over $20,000 on a proper rebuild of a 1947-1957 1100cc Fiat race motor, as used in many "etceterinis"!
Ferrari also sells champion plugs for $50 each. NGK makes better plugs for $8. If you paid 13K for valves than you need your head examined. Ferrari does not make valves. They have them made by an outside vendor. All of the F1 and Nascar guys use Del West. Ti valves are about $100 each. Stainless valves are about $25 each. Do the math or bend over. Even the Ferrari F1 team would not pay 13k for valves for one motor. Just because they cost that much does not mean that they are worth that much. Your 288 motor is about the same as a 328 QV, as is my F40. Sounds like you got took to the cleaners on your rebuild.
a friend of mine that used to restore cars told me that sometimes shops charge you double or triple for spares, thats why the prices are so high on rebuilds
Exactly. Why pay for Ferrari's "just good enough" overpriced pieces manufactured by someone else. In addition to Del West for valves, there are Exceldyne, Ferrea, ect. Pistons from Wiseco, JE, Mahle, etc; Liners from Darton. Rods from Carrillo or Crower. Those vendors who supply F1, IRL, NASCAR make plenty of items that can be used in street cars.
I still say if you do everything and have a good shop do the work, it's going to cost $50,000...and if it's an early car that needs a lot of "one-off" parts made, you can double that...
Evaluate the engine; some techniques used don't require direct inspection, such as a compression test at cold, again at warm, and a leak down test.
