V6 Stang 300hp finally

Understandable, especially when performance sand is available.

When it gets hot out, I prefer a cool towel around my neck than using a/c.

 

Hard to compare since now the economy tanked.

LandYachts on ice, before winter tires, when it was uphills both ways. Thank god for excessive crumple zones.

I drive naked! And don't have AC.

 

What is quantifyable is that Subaru recently entered the 40k car range with the STi, and by the good graces of the company haven't killed it since the Legacy, and Outback models are doing so incredibly well (actually sold more total cars in 2008 than ever before in the USA). The WRX and STi dropped something north of 30% year on year, maybe worse... I don't recall the #'s specifically. That coincided with the new pricing and new model before the economy tanked.

 

Even with the 5 pointer on ? Eeesh ....bet I know what you keep bolted down beside the fire extinguisher......
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exactly. I will never buy an AWD car unless it is a truck of some sort. I will most definitely never buy an AWD performance car... because to me... thats just not a performance car. I don't care what you say, I can feel the weight over the wheels, I can feel the numbness in the steering wheel and I don't like the balance of the car. The worst thing about AWD cars... virtually no oversteer. Where is the fun in that? I want a car that keeps me in check every now and then. I want my car to try to kill me every great now and then. Also, i am getting tired of "kids" thinking they are superman drivers because there AWD and stability control saves there ass every day... I wish natural selection would just kick into place (only half kidding)

Anyways, RWD is faster, most kids get hung up on the AWD 0-60 time... but they fail to look further... there 1/4 times are unimpressive and there trap speed is often much much worse, there performance "advantage" actually becomes a hinderance at higher speeds with the higher drivetrain losses and friction. (that is not opinion that is fact)

 

No one seriously drag races AWD cars. A couple shops do for bragging rights, but most focus on roadracing or time attack. Sure, kids who have them will run them down the strip because its cheap motorsport that doesn't need a racing licence and I good indicator of horsepower. I've even done it. Boring as hell, no turns, no jumps, no braking, redline-shift, redline-shift.

There is enough traction on dry pavement that AWD is a disadvantage for dragracing. They don't race when it rains or snows. Everyone knows that.

99.99% of N American rallyracing events in the past decade have been won by AWD. I won national championships for both AWD and 2wd classes. That is where you'll see the beauty of AWD.

An AWD Mustang is a dumb idea. A turbo Mustang is not. An AWD Ford compactcar w/ turbo, thats what I wanna see.

How often does it snow in Phoenix?

 

Perhaps you misinterpreted my post, or I didn't elaborate enough... Basically what I was trying to say is that AWD cars really aren't all that fast once you get above... say 50-60 mph. There advantage is gone and only there weakness is left. I wasn't referring to drag racing per say. For example, say you are coming out of a turn on your local race track... your exit speed is probably as low as 30mph on a tight corner and maybe up to 80mph on others... after that corner is a big long straight... which car is going to pull harder down that straight? That was more of my point with the trap speed comment. AWD cars start to "run out of steam" on the big end.

Well, while I may live in phoenix, the middle of the dessert (hence your wisecrack regarding snow) I don't come across any rally stages or dirt roads on my way to work either. Yes AWD is great in the dirt. Of course it is!!! (bit of trivia... what was the last car to win a world rally title that was 2wd???) Its great in the snow too, although I personally believe if you are driving a smaller lighter car fwd will get you through just about anything, but I understand the comfort, need, and want of an awd car for those conditions. However, if you reread my post I specifically said performance car. How many people buy there 911 turbo to drive in the snow? or purchased a diablo VT because it make a great snow plow? I would say the majority of owners who own cars similar to the cars previously mentioned purchased them for there performance and they utilize other more "common" means of transportation when the weather does turn south. Ohh im sure there is a C4 owner who will come to protest he loves driving it in the snow etc... but I would guess he would rather beat up a different car in the snow if he could.

+1 for the awd compactcar with a turbo.... sub 30k though

 

Lancia 037?

Check out my yellow car.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/803556/1

For sure RWD is the most fun.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/11/web/803000-803999/803556_41_full.jpg

 

Evidentally there is, I see quite a few Focus ST's and I've
seen a couple Focus RS's but that's cause they're new and admitally abit pricey.

 

ahem. Let me be clear in my reference.

In America.

 

Yeah, don't think he realizes what Ford offers in America in this post.

Mustangs and GT40 unless you call a Taurus wagon quick.

 

Why is that ?

Ford would sell more of them in N/A than EVO wannabes....

 

im going to have to disagree with you on that one. This is just my opinion and of course isn't fact (neither is your above quoted comment)... these are just my thoughts...


I don't think they would sell as many due to the car being somewhat impractical. 2-door coupes are the toughest cars to sell in America. If you don't believe me, go to your BMW dealer and ask them how many 6 series coupes vs convertibles they sell. Ask them how many 3 series 4-doors vs 2-doors they sell. Ask a Benz dealer how many CLKs vs Eclasses they sell or CL vs Sl or S class. Also, look at how Lincoln and Cadillac used to have coupes and no longer. Look at the supra, the RX7 the 3000 GT. Hell even subaru doesn't offer a coupe... An evo is a 4-door at that!

It is a much more fickel market. Then add awd... The concept is take a performance based machine that is relatively impractical and add 2-3k dollar option of awd for cold climate use for maybe 4 months out of the year... I don't think you will have many people stepping up on the option. I agree with you that there would be some who bought it. I am just sharing with you that I don't believe that there would be enough people to justify it even if it was only a 2k dollar option. I think the person who is looking for a car for use in snow, is a person who is looking for a practical car something that serves them year round... I believe that same person is more often looking for a 4-door... and the market is pretty well saturated with them.

 

Oh I forgot the US doesnt have any quick Focus's does it?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksKUZHkc58c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmrRKEXvh_k
Still cheaper than an RS after dumping the v8 in there, and converting it to RWD (as well as new transmission, and suspension).

 

Fair enough, and, until you mentioned it, I hadn't noticed the coupe/ 2 door market falling away. There will always be less of a market for two door cars but it seems to me for every model that fades out, a new one emerges to replace it, albeit from another manufacturer, (ie: the Genesis and Forte).

As I mentioned , I have no idea how much retooling would cost ( how on earth did AMC manage to retool a Gremlin with what they had in reserve?) , but , for argument's sake, let us use a Challenger as our pony car example instead of the Mustang (although the size of the Mustang makes it a better candidate). Retooling AWD on a Challenger should be relatively workable and costs recoverable if sales were moderate (again, I'd be surprised if hit 10% of volume) . My contention is a pony car appeals to a broader market than a pseudo rally sedan (in NA). I'd agree the STI/EVO/R32/Focus RS awd crowd is more entertaining to drive, but for many, the cost, suspension stiffness, transmission limitations and high strung nature are offputting for general use, 4 door or not. A Mustang, sorry, Challenger AWD, has a market that extends from price comparable FWD coupes, AWD sedans, a budget BMW X and Infiniti awd alternative and it could draw on Northern pony car fans who want more traction than sandbags and Blizzaks can offer. Also, the market is devoid of an option at this point. There would only be one AWD pony available, not the same situation for rally sedans.
So I guess we will have to disagree...

 

Hardly on sale in the locale Ford dealership though is it? I'll take the RS any day of the week.

 

FCA finally read my rantings 8 years later. Shame about no manual or hemi although I imagine the Challenger is one heavy snowball to toss in winter.

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