V8 Levante

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by staatsof, Nov 18, 2017.

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  1. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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  2. emsiegel13

    emsiegel13 Formula Junior

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    Mercedes also does the same thing with their 4L engine. It shortens the path to the turbocharger and reduces turbo lag but it is only an interim solution. Mercedes is moving to a 48 volt architecture and will supplement their gas driven turbochargers with an electrically driven supercharger and a starter-generator between the engine and the transmission that will give instantaneous response from idle and low speeds. Of course, the next few years are transitional as electric cars will eventually take over, either drive from batteries or by fuel cell which are electric themselves.
     
  3. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I looked at the picture and I just don't see that, looks about the same as all the V engine turbos I've owned?
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  4. emsiegel13

    emsiegel13 Formula Junior

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    Go online to the Mercedes website and check out the AMG 4 liter engine where they tell you that the turbochargers are inside and the intakes are outside. There is a great picture of an engine on a dynamometer showing the turbos red hot in the "V."
     
  5. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Oops I was comparing the Porsche engine to Maserati and didn't notice that you had switched the discussion to Mercedes. I think any reduction in turbo lag probably has a lot more to do with the geometry of the newer turbo designs as well as engine management tuning. They know oh so much more now than in the ground & engine braking days of the pioneering Maserati Biturbo. Red hot in the V of the engine sounds like a recipe for trouble ... superchargers with an integral liquid intercooler I get. That's what I have on my Jag. That's an incredibly short path as was the liquid intercooler setup on the old Biturbos.

    OK I looked. Looks like a long path to me? Marketing hype ... Replacement of the turbos has got to be a lot easier though. Oh who knows really. Modern cars are jammed so tight. My vintage Maseratis and Lamborghini are far easier to work on than my modern Jag. Well not the Espada's brake and clutch master cylinders. Those are straight outta Hades.
     
  6. emsiegel13

    emsiegel13 Formula Junior

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    I'm certainly not an engineer but I assume that the various people who deal with turbocharging in the automobile world have reviewed the problems and benefits of moving the turbochargers into the V of a six or eight cylinder engine. Mercedes is not the only one that has gone that route. I'll see if my new Mercedes gives me any problems when I get it towards the end of this year. I doubt, as I won't be doing any track days, that my turbos will ever glow red hot although now I have a new goal. Light em' up! Seriously, I suspect that there are electronic nannies the prevent the engine from being damaged under severe use. You are absolutely right about the complexities of modern automobiles but I don't think things will change back to the old days. I liked being able to do some work on my cars and I guess that is why I like having couple of vintage cars that permit some hands on work. I wonder if my kids or my grandchildren will feel the same way.
     
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  8. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
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    An already long overdue step!
    I expect this engine also in the Ghibli. In this regards I don't understand the Maserati model/engine politic. In this market segment a V8 tt is an absolute must.
     
  9. Foncool

    Foncool Karting

    Oct 27, 2011
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    Unfortunately Maserati is suffering from a bit of (to quote the great Yogi) “Deja Vu all over again”. It is 1986, with an influx of Chrysler personnel into key senior management positions that have little experience or understanding of the segment of the upscale market they are competing in and even less understanding of Maserati itself. On the Maserati side they have their own issues too that need to be addressed. But the answer to what it takes to make Maserati successful will not be found in Auburn Hills. Right now Marchionne needs to tap into his inner DeTomaso as soon as possible and get Maserati (and Alfa Romeo) as far away from Chrysler personnel as possible.
     
  10. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    That Mercedes TT is using a liquid intercooler setup. I think that's where their reducing the airflow path. My 84 Biturbo does the same exact thing. My 96 GOC uses air-to-air which is much better for sustained high output duty.
    Both of those cars have the turbos in the same location. The new Maserati Biturbos are similarly located. With modifications I've greatly reduced the underhood effects of the heat generated by twin turbos on the 84 so it's a nice running car.
    On the 96 Ghibli II it's a know problem of those turbos being so close to frame rails that they develop heat stress cracks in the rails. I've repaired these once already and mine is a very low mileage track day car. It's not something I would have expected. So that much heat can sometimes have unpredictable consequences. For this stuff to happen you have to run the cars hard for sustained periods and or in very hot weather. I've done a lot of that in my 84, Bora and the GOC. So I tend to find this stuff earlier than some others might.

    Given how you're describing how the car will be driven you'll probably be just fine.

    This reminds me of a humorous story involving the SF Maserati dealership BMC back when the Biturbos first came out. They were suffering like all the dealerships did with the inadequately designed emissions systems and a few other issues at that time. Well I was having so much fun driving the car that I used to regularly flog it on Skyline Blvd. south of SF down the peninsula towards Stanford. Then I'd come back to the BMC service manager and report on things I noticed about the car. He looked at me one day and said "You like to drive this car hard and fast don't you!" I replied "Well it's a Maserati and it goes GD fast. Isn't that allowed?" LOL :D I never did burnouts or intentionally over revved it but exercise it I did!
     
  11. klfpaul

    klfpaul Karting

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    Truer words could not have been spoken. Having dealt with some of these higher level "Maserati" nee Chrysler personnel (regional level managers) on the aftersales side for an ongoing engine issue with a new Ghibli Q4 I bought, to describe them as worthless would be giving them too much credit. They have no idea how to rectify a situation, placate a customer, retain future sales from said customers, make things "right" or "think outside the box" in any way that is not terribly worse than the bare minimum of a Chrysler experience. The aftersales "experience" will sink the brand, in the US at least, in my opinion.
     
  12. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    This is the second time Maserati has done this too. Once under DeTomaso and apparently now under Fiat. Other than Ferrari Italians are extraordinarily poor players with their own products in the US automotive market place.
    I don't think the cars are poor but the management here doesn't seem to get it.
    Moving it back to Detroit won't improve that either.
     
  13. Foncool

    Foncool Karting

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    There is a reason why Daimler-Benz after paying 36 billion for Chrysler was willing to dump it for 7 billion! There is a reason why no other manufacturer would go near Chrysler and FIAT was essentially begged by the Obama administration to take over Chrysler. There is also a reason why VW moved out of Auburn Hills to Herndon, VA, there is reason why GM moved Cadillac’s headquarters out of Detroit. There is a reason why>...................
     
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  15. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie Formula 3
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    If I'm not mistaken BMW was the first to introduce the turbos in the V a few years back. These modern cars will be a nightmare I think as far as repairs go; basically they'll be appliances. Run them to 100k or whatever limit they have then throw away.
     
  16. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
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    Dealer told me the V8 tt Levante is planned for the US market only. I'm not happy!
     
  17. CETH

    CETH Karting

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    Heard the same from my dealer (US + Asia). Don’t understand why unless there is a production limit issue at Ferrari for the engines. Ended up buying the standard S instead


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
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    I have just received good news from my dealer; Maserati will launch the V8 Levante also in Switzerland. We can expect two versions (mid of this year), the "normal" one with 560hp and a "sharper" one with more than 600hp. I'm happy now.
     
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  19. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Well those should be easy on the wallet to operate over there! :eek: 4 or 2 WD?
     
  20. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
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    I have no idea, will ask my dealer. But I guess only 4WD.
     
  21. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I ask because that would mean that they now have a 4WD platform and a V8 configuration (I assume) that can handle that level of power.
     
  22. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    "The Levante and its V8 are expected to throw some serious Italian charm and acoustics into the game, which will certainly appeal to a lot of different buyers. "

    The Europeans are finally figuring a lot of American's still want nice sounding cars even in this new era of hybrid and electric. I hope this motor finds its way into a NEW Maserati sportscar.

    The European flip from loving Diesel to loving almost all electric makes me think they have no idea what direction they are headed in.
     
  23. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
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    So am I.
    Now that, will get me and a checkbook to a Maserati showroom very quickly!
     
  24. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
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    The Head of Maserati Switzerland told me once that the 90° cylinder bank-angle from the V8 engine would be the problem for the Levante (and Ghibli). There is (was) not enough space between the strut towers to implement this engine on the same deep level as the smaller V6 60° engine (conclusion: more power with a worse driving behavior because of a higher installation position). The technical adjustments would be too costly to realize with the V8 engine the same agile driving behavior as with the smaller V6. I don't know if this is/was the truth. However, now it seems they have found a solution.
     
  25. NEP

    NEP F1 Rookie

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    bay likes this.
  26. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh screw Porsche, Mercedes and Lamborghini just cut to the chase ... still a part of the same family too!





    :p
     

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