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Value advice...

Discussion in '308/328' started by Craig Munschy, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Craig Munschy

    Craig Munschy Rookie

    Jan 20, 2020
    8
    Pismo Beach, Ca
    Full Name:
    Craig Munschy
    I am new to the Ferrari Forum. Hoping to get some advice. I know this is a tough question to answer, But can someone give me the value of a 1982 308 GTSI .
    2 valve engine
    100,718 MILES
    No rust..California car since new.
    Fires right up from cold no smoke .
    No weird noises.
    Clutch at 60,000 mi.
    Belts 6 years ago (5,000 mi ago)
    Body perfect ...no dents, glass all great.
    Repaint 5 years ago, but looks factory.
    Very nice interior. .seats reupholstered
    as original 6 years ago.
    Gearbox solid.
    Will pass smog w/ no problem according to the seller.
    I know this is a very subjective question...any idea of value?
    Thanks in advance...
    Craig
     
  2. smg2

    smg2 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 1, 2004
    9,851
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    SMG
    Welcome..
    Values are not in my wheelhouse, I just make them go faster..
    If you've got the VIN# handy the group here is very adept at pulling Ferrari's history as long as it's not been squirreled away in a barn for the last couple of decades.
    No rust they say, sorry to say that's just about impossible. Ferrari used really crappy Russian steel and had less then ideal, as in next to no rust proofing done. Levels of rust vary but it's creeping along somewhere. Esp on an original chassis.
    If it's been regularly driven and maintained, that's better then those that sit and rarely get driven, milage would indicate the former. High milage can be viewed as a good thing for those who want to drive and do not care of values.

    There's decades of info here, and possibly lifetimes worth. The 308's are classic or vintage enough to be wrenched on by the owner, that cuts both ways though, helps save on costs but only if they know what they are doing but could also end up costing lots more to correct mistakes.

    I recommend this, buy the best example you can afford, ideally the best example period but that can be outside of most budget. Older Ferraris that need work get very expensive in a real hurry.

    I'd also suggest doing some homework and reading thru the many threads and stickies here, goes a long way to the group.

    Again, welcome to the sickness...
     
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  3. topcarbon

    topcarbon Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2006
    1,843
    Wisconsin/Illinois / Mexico
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    jason
    someone drove that car
    BRAVO!
    so many variables.
    I would start with records because a visual inspection will only tell a little of the story.
    I would not trust anything the seller says unless proven with records.
    with what you wrote i will go out on a limb and say 35k-65k tops
     
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  4. Craig Munschy

    Craig Munschy Rookie

    Jan 20, 2020
    8
    Pismo Beach, Ca
    Full Name:
    Craig Munschy
    Thanks for the info ...what's tough is I think I can get the car for @ 28K...having a hard time walking away. The normal side of my brain says parts/repairs = $$$$$ if something goes wrong. Very few records ...81 y.o. gentleman selling it.
     
  5. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    #5 dwhite, Jan 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
    If you have mechanical ability you will be fine. If you don't you will have to pay through the nose for everything. It's a ferrari and they require mait and service at regular intervals. Parts are stupid expensive and some are idiotic expensive. An example is that motor has $250.00 rotors in the distributor caps. QVs rotors are $25.00. But if the car runs fine and it has decent compression in the motor, should be good, unless one of the sodium filled exhaust valves goes on you.

    If I were you, I would educate myself on the differences between the 308 series and then look for the one you like most. These cars are reliable, but not without some issues. I've had mine 19 years and have put 30K on it. Would have been more but had other cars to enjoy at the same time. Not being harsh, just it's better to get a good car vs a bad one. Good luck.
     
  6. Craig Munschy

    Craig Munschy Rookie

    Jan 20, 2020
    8
    Pismo Beach, Ca
    Full Name:
    Craig Munschy
    Luckily I was a mechanic for 20+ years...that will help I'm sure.
     
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  7. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
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    Apr 28, 2013
    461
    Gaston, Oregon
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    Brian Healy
    Funny how a hundred thousand miles in a Ferrari is awful, but in a Porsche- so what. At 28K, not much of a risk. YES you will have a harder time selling it because of the mileage, but if it's a clean, well taken care of car, you're in a great looking car for NOT that much money. Have fun with it. BUT a fair warning, the first years of the fuel injected 308''s WEREN'T rockets. Took the quatrovalve engine to get the power back up to what the earlier carbureted cars were.They make all the right noises, but if you look at the speedometer, it's not exactly changing speed quickly. Get the car looked at by someone knowledgeable. Or just crawl underneath and make sure there's not a lot of rust, or oil pouring out, and just buy it. If the car doesn't make any expensive noises, the transmission shifts without grinding- use common sense and just really LOOK the car over.
     
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  8. BillyD

    BillyD Formula 3
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    Feb 28, 2004
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    Do searches on timing belts, cam belt drive bearings, and sodium valves.
    Then go to sponsor Ricambi or Superformanceuk.com and look at part prices.
    Before the recent run up in Ferrari values I’d have said $15k max but that was knowing that a good used low mileage motor and tranny could be had for less than $10k.
    Every old Ferrari I’ve had required:
    Suspension rebuild - say $2k
    Clutch - say $1k
    Belt change and valve adjust - $1k
    Hoses, and there’s lots of them- $1k
    These are part prices, I did all the wrenching.
    Then there’s water pumps and thermostats, AC compressors and hoses.
    I’d say $28k is high with the risks involved with the sodium valves. Now if the valves have been changed, or you have great luck I’d say it might be a good buy.
    My .02
     
  9. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    5,821
    Test drive, then just pay the old boy and drive it home. $28K ? you stole it.
     
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  10. Brian A

    Brian A Formula 3

    Dec 21, 2012
    2,118
    SanFrancisco BayArea
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    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    Low price and you're mechanically inclined???!!!??? This is the magic combination.

    If you are not familiar with Ferraris, it is probably worthwhile having a PPI done by a Ferrari expert, even just someone who is familiar with the model: there might be stuff missing or modified that you wouldn't notice. Do a compression test.

    Sure, if there is something major missing or broken, it can be expensive (e.g. front windshield) (or if you leave the timing belts beyond their functional life) but its just a car, a quirky one, but still just a car.
     
  11. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    29,435
    Birmingham, AL
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    Tommy
    If nothing is broken, I think you are safe at 28K - if you are buying it to keep and enjoy.

    If you are thinking about flipping it after "fixing it up", well, there isn't a lot of room left at that price. the 2Vi's are not the cream of the 308 crop (although they are my favorite for sentimental reasons)
     
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  12. JuLiTrO

    JuLiTrO Karting

    Nov 2, 2017
    195
    Full Name:
    Julio Saiz
    My 5 cents
    Consider you will spend 10K on top of buying price during first 2 years.
    Kind of provision

    Hope it helps
     
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  13. rob

    rob F1 Rookie

    May 22, 2002
    3,525
    Vt
    I would say it makes a big difference if you can do the mechanical work yourself or not. The belts will need to be done, in my research I have come to the conclusion that they should be done every 5 years or 30,000 miles, it's alright to go a little longer but you should do them, and if you can do them yourself you will save a lot in labor. The 2valve cars are the lowest value of 308's but hey it is still a 308! IMO if you can do the work yourself and get the car for 28k that is not a bad deal.
     
  14. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 9, 2014
    2,657
    Frisco, Tx
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    Sid
    If you can do all the mechanical work yourself, then I think $28K is a deal.

    5 years ago I bought a 1985 Mondial QV (same drive train as the 308QV) for $25K. It had 65K miles and was all original, except for the replacement wheels (TRXs were changed to standard 16"ers -- the owner delivered the TRXs with the car).

    Since then, we generally try to drive about 100 miles a month (sometimes more, sometimes less when life gets in the way).
    Maintenance expense hasn't been bad at all.
    Here's a list of all major repairs we've had (and we did/do all our own work so there is no labor fees/charges )

    Alternator -- We pulled it and had a local generator/alternator shop rebuild it for $110. (a replacement was $2K from Ferrari)
    Fuel Injection Distributor -- $500 -- I bought a rebuilt one off ebay, and we installed it ourselves. We are in the process of rebuilding the original one ourselves as sort of a learning experience
    This was our worst problem. The symptoms that the car was showing weren't pointing at the fuel distributor. We spent a lot of time tracking down and checking
    everything from the injectors, to the accumulators, to vacuum leaks, cold-start valve, warm-up regulator, and more before we zeroed in on the distributor unit itself.
    Distributors & Plug leads -- about $600 total in parts.
    New Fuel Injectors -- $32 each (8 of them). I also bought about 16 used ones from a pick-n-pull for about 2$ each. The QV engine uses the same fuel injectors as the mid 1980's MB 190e.
    I bought the used ones to experiment/play with (and as justification for purchasing a fuel injector test rig).
    Power Antenna -- $100, got the replacement, an exact fit, at Auto-Zone for $100.
    Re-Dye Interior -- About $500 in supplies and about 1 month in our labor to pull, clean, dye and reinstall all the leather pieces
    Major Service parts -- $1100 for a belt/major kit (we haven't installed it yet, but are about too)
    Sunroof Motor -- $25 for a used Porsche 944 sunroof motor from a pick-n-pull (I think Ferrari wants $15oo for this same motor)
    AC Compressor -- I've bought a new one for about $200. Haven't installed it yet. The old one is still working. It just leaks enough that the Freon is gone after about 3 months.
    We'll probably install the new one when we do the belt service this spring.
    New Tires -- $800 for a set of 4.
    Misc oil and transmission fluid changes -- $100 each occurrence.


    So, while not cheap, if you do your own work, owing one of these vintage V8 Ferrari's isn't really all that expensive. And keep in mind that my list is for 5 years of ownership.
    There are lots of parts in common with other cars of the same era (Bosch fuel distributor & injectors, AC Compressor, Cold-Start Valve. Alternator, sunroof motor & cable, and more).
    If I had paid Ferrari to do the work, the maintenance costs probably would have exceeded my original purchase price by now

    The work is fairly easy and straightforward, and there are youtube videos that show practically every possible mechanical repair.

    After 5 years, I still love this car. Working on the car is fun, and driving it is always a blast -- rowing through the gates is like no other driving experience. Ripping through a tunnel at high rpm (with the windows open) is unbelievable.


    Sid
     
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  15. derekw

    derekw Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,072
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    Derek W
    It’s worth at least $30k for parts and I think if it really is rust free and complete $35-40k is fair value. Do the valves, all the rubber hoses and some seals/bearings/bushes— probably $4-5k in parts and a few weekends and evenings of work. Then you’ll have a car you know with key issues addressed and good for a few years of enjoyment :)
     
  16. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Dec 12, 2005
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    Atlanta
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    Tom Spiro
    I think if you look at Hagerty index they will value the car between $20K and $35K. the two valves gts cars are not well loved but are nice cars. the mileage will be a resale issue, but if you love it and want a good Car to drive that you can work on its the one. Doing belts and valves and clutch are the hardest things... and suspension will be needed along the way. given that a 2v car can take $5-10K at any point... just be aware. if you can do your own work. its a no brainer. I've seen some 2v GTB's I'd love to have with lowered fronts and pushed in bumpers they are sexy cars. good luck.
     
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  17. built2grind

    built2grind Karting
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    Oct 16, 2016
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    The Peninsula
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    ANDREW
    Buy it, you won’t regret it.
     
  18. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 4, 2008
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    I’d just add that you should buy the best car you can afford. Don’t be afraid of them, a lot of caveats but I believe overblown.

    I was curious about valuation myself as I am selling my 308, and the market is a little vague. They have come down a bit but I can’t seem to find the sweet spot. Hagerty and BaT have been my primary resources...
     
  19. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Dec 12, 2005
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    I'd say that 308 market is a bit better than the 328 Market - this is for the GTS cars. I follow Cavalino and FML - which both show a slight decline in price for 308 GTSi - and QV's with flat or slight increase in GTB's. about 5% change YOY. so they are ranging from $35K to $75K... 328 GTS have dipped to $30K - 75% from 40 - 85K. all this is depending on mileage.

    glass cars - are the most expensive followed by QV and then carb cars then 2V cars. Low miles - original command the most. For me what counts more than low miles is documentation - if you have the mtns. history on the car from new - that is far more valuable to me than low miles.
     
  20. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 4, 2004
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    308GTsi was my first ferrari.
    Mine had lots of issues but not the valve drop one.
    I too was a mechanic.
    The nice thing about it was that parts were reasonable.
    Steering rack was rebuilt for peanuts.
    Brake pads from a mercedes.
    Ete etc
    But the car was slow even for the day.
    Sexy and slow ;)
     
  21. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    Feb 17, 2006
    3,632
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    A good looking 2Vi for $28k? Yeah, I think I'd do that. If you have experience wrenching then you can work on this car. It is harder than most cars for various reasons, but it's not really different than any other car.
    If you've been fixing old American cars or VW Beetles then parts prices will be like a punch in the stomach. If you've been wrenching on modern German cars then they will seem downright reasonable. Except beware the occasional unobtanium.
    I have QV GTS. I enjoy every drive and usually even enjoy the time working on the car.
     
  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Where do you find a 328 for $30K?
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    Nowhere. FML shows 328 GTS at $91-$93 k and not below the $80's in three years.
     
  24. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2014
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    Ron
  25. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
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    That is really not a valid data point.
     
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