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Value Thread: Finding My V12 Lusso and Future Value Predictions

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by BrntRubber, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    Hi Guys and Gals,
    I am interested in purchasing a V12 Lusso, but have been waiting for some of the significant depreciation to have already taken effect.

    Questions Please:

    A) How much does a typical Ferrari dealer markup a car after trade-in for resale?


    B) Is my analysis below overly optimistic/correct?:
    1) FF prices have been negatively impacted by the Lusso. New and improved version (I know this is subjective) has further pushed down prices. This wont be the case with the V12 Lusso as this is the last V12 4 seater Ferrari. Going forward it’s the SUV. Therefore I assume the V12 Lusso prices will be higher than what the FF has shown over the last 8 plus years.

    2) Good examples of the Lusso are now at or over £100k ($130k USD) off list equating to about 40% to 50% off new. Highly optioned cars are as much as £170k/£180k off list, 40% to 50% off the list. Is this the sweet spot in the depreciation curve?

    3) FFs here in the UK having asking prices of £100k/£90k ($115k to $130k) to £140k ($180k) depending on age and spec. I assume a car that’s 5/6 years old with say 15k miles sells for around £125k ($160k). This my assumption looking at asking prices and I could be wrong. Does this sound correct?

    Based on the above, if someone is able to buy a well looked after V12 Lusso (say almost new 2018 or 2019) with under 5k miles for £170k/£180k it should be worth somewhere around £130k/£140k in 4 years. Is my thinking flawed?

    Thank you all for the help and I look forward to sharing my next purchase with you all.
     
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  3. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    #2 BrntRubber, Feb 22, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
    Here is my shirt list of the cars I have identified:
    Car 1:
    2019 Nero Daytona on Cream with 1,000 miles.

    All must have options (roof, led wheel, carbon display, CarPlay, etc but nothing crazy. Quite a normal Lusso list price.

    This is the dactyl how I would spec the car from new, considering I wouldn’t go heavy with unneeded options. If money wasn’t a concern I would likely go for a different build. A build I certainly like.

    Can be had for 37.5% off new price
     

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  4. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    #3 BrntRubber, Feb 22, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
    Car 2:
    Likely an Atelier Car with an eye watering £340k list.
    2018 with 5k miles
    Very tasteful fully loaded spec (Blu Helen Paint, Interior of Blue Alcantara, Black Leather and all CF parts etc)
    Can be had for close to 45% to 50% off list.

    This isn’t a build I would normally go for because of the sheer cost of all the options. But I find her beautiful and she is definitely a car I would gladly own.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Car 3
    2017 Nero on Tortora with 10k miles
    45% off list giving it a purchase price of £158k ($204k)
    All essential options but no CF except for driver zone led wheel.
    Cheapest of the 3 cars by approx £17.5k (22k USD)


    Which of the 3 cars represents the smartest buy, considering the likely future value?
    I am the most tempted by options 1 or 2 as these are builds that really speak to me.

    Thank you all very much for the help!
     
  5. DavidRS4

    DavidRS4 Karting

    Oct 12, 2019
    111
    Option 3 is out as you clearly indicated you don’t really love it. Between the two I personally would go with option 2 as I think it’s the better looking car. If you are not in a hurry offer 160k and see what happens. Neither 1 or 2 are terrible colors for resale.
     
  6. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    I agree. 3 is out

    I offered £170k on Helen (Car 2) and they declining my offer.
     
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  8. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    5,611
    Weston, MA
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    Paul
    How did you make your offer? In person, over the phone, online?
     
  9. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    I had a couple calls with salesman regarding finding me a car (black on cream or black on cuoio). He then said this one, although blue and not what I asked for, was special and soon available and was going to be retailed at around £189 to £185.

    We had a couple follow up calls and then I emailed over an offer of £170k subject to viewing and contract.

    I have never purchased a car so heavily optioned before but knowing I could buy Car 1 (2019 sensibly specced with under 1k miles, for £180k, £170k seemed reasonable for a 2018 with 5k miles and lots more options.

    Maybe I am off the mark or maybe he is just trying to get me to up the price.?
     
  10. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    5,611
    Weston, MA
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    Paul
    Well, I have to be careful because apparently you are in the UK, and things may be done differently there than in the US. Also I don't know how easily you can go to the seller in person. Not that you can't negotiate deals over the phone or the internet, but nothing beats in person negotiation. There are tactics in person that just cannot be duplicated on the phone or on email.
     
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  11. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    Sharing is caring my friend and please don’t be careful.

    What tactics do you suggest? I think Ferrari plays the same game in virtually every market.
     
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  13. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
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    Paul
    I'll write up something and get it to you.
     
  14. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    Thank you for taking the time to be so helpful! It is much appreciated!
     
  15. DavidRS4

    DavidRS4 Karting

    Oct 12, 2019
    111
    Its possible they don't own car number 2 and are trying to buy it or just broker it to you...
     
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  16. hagen111

    hagen111 Karting

    Feb 25, 2006
    105
    Negotion power depends on:
    - does dealer own the car? or brokering on behalf of owner? In the last case it fully depends on willingness (need?) of the owner to move down on price.
    - good (the best) specced cars will move and won't sit...if you are not buying someone else will. You won't get a large discount, but will enjoy the great spec for the time you own it. My experience is get the best car, pay the premium, enjoy your fantastic car during ownership (=priceless).
     
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  17. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    They have told me it is being part exchanged by a customer and they are taking into stock. The salesman clearly mentioned the owner is upset at how much he has lost over the 1.5 years and they have their market to make as well. They also said they will retail it at £185k to £189k.

    Anyway, it is hard for them to argue that Car 1 has all essential options for £181 and is 1 year newer with only 1,000 miles. It just doesn’t have £50k more in non essential but tasty options.
     
  18. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 21, 2008
    4,585
    Los Angeles
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    Mike
    I think you should assume the Lusso will follow almost the exact same trend as the FF and there is little reason to think otherwise. The depreciation of the FF likely would have been the same regardless of the Lusso. It's simply not a popular model and keep in mind that the SUV will be a popular model whether it has a V12 or not.
     
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  19. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    11,063
    South East
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    Jimmie
    As time goes on the value of the options means less and less so five or ten grand here or there is irrelevant if the slightly greater spend brings you greater pleasure

    You have a budget and you know what you like - don't over-think it - I suspect the Helen could be yours with a bit of phone and/or face-to-face at or just below 180 - they need to know you are serious and that is not an email thing
     
  20. haroonok

    haroonok Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2007
    827
    england
    Full Name:
    haroon
    Nice looking 2012 FF sold at Silverstone Auctions yesterday for £79k-nero/red car with 37k miles.
     
  21. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    But how can a 180 price be justified for Helen when the 2019 with all the key options, 900 miles and a tasteful spec is at £181k. This dealer came from 199k and is adding in the passenger display as well because it was the one missing option I really wanted in the car.
     
  22. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    11,063
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    When you buy a mobile phone you can spend a grand or next to nothing - in five years time both are just used old mobile phones but in the interim you have had the pleasure of all the bells and whistles - the Helen car is new enough that it still has a small premium for its options

    Also another factor is the 2019 may be costing the dealer (or the owner) money to stock and not sell whereas the 2018 has just arrived
     
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  23. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    510
    The Netherlands
    ^^^ this.

    the reason the Blu Helen dealer won’t budge on price is

    1) you haven’t even seen or driven the car and yet you’re showing so much interest already that they know you want it

    2) they think that if you don’t buy it, someone else will. With interest rates where they are, the cost of stocking cars is very low and dealers like to keep late low mileage cars on the showroom floor.

    my advice is not to negotiate on price until you’ve driven the car and seen it in person. At that point you negotiate face to face and let them know that you’ll walk if they don’t want to deal. At that point, you have to be prepared to walk. If you aren’t, pay their price and be happy that you got the car you wanted.

    I think that once you’ve seen and driven the car, you will know what to do.
     
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  24. mthompson2376

    mthompson2376 Karting

    Feb 2, 2017
    151
    North East England
    Full Name:
    Mark Thompson
    Agree with all your points and swooped in for a V12 in the UK last week, absolutely loving it and so are the kids....as you state, the last of a generation of car ( so it won’t be outdated, especially with its unique setup - it will simply be the Lusso and the last of its kind) depreciation will be no higher than on a new BMW or Mercedes, estimating upto £40k, I can live with that, if I ever sell it, loving it so much thinking just keep it and drive it to forever,

    With end of Production imminent we may only have 220 registered Lusso’s here so jumping in now sort of made a lot of sense for me (genuinely a rare sight on our roads) I found it quite hard to find a light colour interior car in the UK too...which for me was a must...as was pan roof, passenger display, and the JBL sound system (which is really high quality in these - as opposed to previous Ferrari / JBL systems). I have had quite a few Ferrari’s all the sports cars and they tend to attract the wrong attention, the amount of compliments I have had over the weekend have been very welcome.

    Go for it, will not be disappointed, I have been using it all weekend in the rubbish weather and it is just solid and works...

    Good luck hunting, Image Unavailable, Please Login
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    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     

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  25. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    She is a beauty! Enjoy in good health!
    I like the light interiors too, especially the cream. I do worry my little soldiers will destroy it though :)
     
  26. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    29,198
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    I usually dont like black Ferraris, but that interior makes it such a nice place to be! Would be very nice to sit in there everyday...so bright!
     
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  27. BrntRubber

    BrntRubber Karting

    Feb 18, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Farris Alnaqeeb
    I do love a bright interior. Especially when it’s so dark and gloomy in the UK. I just hope my 4 and 6 year old don’t destroy it.

    The Helen cars black leather on blue alcantara with blue stitching although dark, I find quite tasteful and stylish, in the renders at least. In the flesh I might love it more or just gravitate back towards the black on cream.

    Thanks for chiming in.
     
  28. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    5,611
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I sent you a private message.

    This is a good point I forgot to mention in my message. It can really work in your favor. Generally private sellers are less willing/able to sit on a car.


    Very good advice. It is along the lines of the PM I sent you.
     

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