Vandenbrink Arneson drive Speed Boat

As my mother (who was an interior designer of note) would say, you have a good eye....

Any specifics on length, beam, displacement, and of course, HP and therefore speed????

The first step looks a bit deep, but with the black background we can't see much about where the drives are and what is going on at the transom, and the amount of deadrise back there as well as forward may make the side view deceptive...

Weight distribution will determine where that first step is anyway, with a lot of depth it will vent easily without goint to thru the hull pipes, but with a step that deep it might struggle to plane without a lot of power.

The bow treatment is interesting, wave action could take out the windshield on other designs, but yours will shield it so there is likely some merit to that.

Are you working with a marine architect on the hull design, engine and drive specifics?

 

Unless this is for a lake you'll be wanting stand up blosters/seating.

If you get some orders I know a boat yard that can build these for you.

Best

 

Beautiful design Michiel. Your concept shares many similarities to the Alpha Z by VanDam Woodcraft. Did you look to this boat for styling cues?
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This is fantastic! I have had the fortune of viewing the Alpha Z in person at the Lake Tahoe Concours d'Elegance and it is truly a piece of art. Currently available for sale at $875,000US. I look forward to following the progress of your craft. It seems like it would be an ideal candidate for turbine power or perhaps a pair of Sterling 1200's. Best Regards...

 

This is what I was wondering too, hence my question about what power you were considering.

If you are going to all of the trouble to make the entire boat out of carbon fiber, then I am assuming that you are looking for low weight, and propusion system total weight (engine + total fuel load) is a big portion of the total displacement.

We are currently under contract to the U.S. Navy, working on some things that might be appropriate here if the power requirements are high enough.

What we are seeing is that once you get over the threshold of say 700 hp per engine the turbines we are working on have huge advantages over diesels in terms of power to weight (like 1/10th the bare engine weight), and beat the gasoline engines by huge amounts in terms of reliability, with a weight that is about half that of the gasoline engine or less. Compared to a diesel we are seeing 10% higher speeds for the same installed power, and compared to a gasoline engine the fuel consumption is quite a bit less, as well as being far more reliable. High power gasoline engines simply don't last very long in a marine application where you are really using the power. I saw that the Alpha had a single 815 hp gas engine, and that makes it a good candidate for a single turbine, and if the boat is a bit bigger, a coulple of 700 hp turbines would be a good alternative, assuming that you wanted to go really fast.

Since a turbine WILL be more expensive than a gasoline engine, the customer has to be more discerning and want the advantages of a turbine, specifically, much longer engine life (far more that 10x that of a gas engine), higher reliability, lower maintenance, amazing acceleration, less noise and vibration, and of course, MORE POWER and higher top speed.

Might be something to think about as you go forward into preliminary design. The right turbine would make for a much more exclusive product.

 

Well said Solo. I completely agree. Considering the associated costs of this particular build, it seems that turbine power would be the way to go for numerous reasons. A TM1450 or TM1800 package from Turbine Marine would be a good choice. They would also be great guys to chat with regarding the implementation of turbine power. I'm sure the exhaust ducting from the turbines could be implemented into the design of the vessel in a very exotic/artistic way as well....

 

The TM1450 is basically a Lycoming T53-L13B and the TM1800 is a T53-L703. The L13B is the engine in the Huey helicopter and is pretty much of a dog in terms of specific fuel consumption. the L703 is a lot better, but at 1850 hp it is a lot bigger than many boats need. The L703 is also the baisis for one of the Vericor engines, and since it has a specific fuel consumption of about .47 lbs/hp hr at max power it is a good choice for some large boats as a high speed dash engine or in an applicaton where you need 1800 hp. The problem is the fuel consumption of the L13 is around .55 lb/hp-hr and that's worse than a gasoline engine. Both of these engines are getting more scarce and as supply dries up they will get more expensive. Besides, most people who pay a bundle want a new engine, not a surplus engine that somebody rebuilt.

There are some new things being developed that will provide lower cost and better sfc than what is out there today. Won't be cheap, but compared to existing small engines they will have a lot better SFC.

 

Interesting read about the fuel consumptions of these turbines... My knowledge of these engines is minimal and my only real experience with them is through a friend who owns a 44' MTI with twin 1450's. I can certainly attest to the "Awe" and "Wow" factor they have when the boat is launched at the lake. What are your thoughts on the GE T-58's?

 

When you have a turbine powered boat you have something that most others can only dream about. Much the same as having a Ferrari, there is a lot of "wow" factor there, that is for sure.

The T58 is a pretty old engine, it was actually one of the first turbines to be used in a helicopter. As a result of the much older technology and relatively low pressure ratio, it is not very fuel efficient. SFC is on the order of .606 lbs/hp hr, and that is a lot of fuel. To put it into perspective, if you run it at high power you are going to be burning 830 lbs per hour, or about 120 gallons per hour. Idle is going to be somewhere around 150-200 pph, or about 20-30 ghp, just to sit there and make noise. They are reliable and good engines, and on the surplus market they aren't that expensive. Not sure if there is a good marine installation package as there is with the MTI engines, so putting one in a boat may be more of a crap shoot in that a well done package may or may not be available. I just don't know if there is one out there, maybe there is and I am just not aware of it.

Older surplus engines are obvioulsly a lot less expensive than a new engine. A zero time helicopter engine, done by a reputable shop will last a long time in a boat. But remember, with two big 1400-1800 hp engines, that for sure is going to one big fast boat to need that much power. Some of these boats are doing above 140 + mph, so these are serious machines, and if you dump one at speed the results are likely to be fatal. A lot of folks want to go fast on the water, but they have no urge to go that fast or to get hurt, so the market for an engine that big is somewhat limited.

The fact is, the age of the surplus engines that are available (and still not inexpensive), a history of bad installations (read expensive blowups, poor drivability in day to day use, things like fires), and the lack of modern engine controls has left a lot of folks with a well deserved skepticism of turbines in boats.

Part of the problem is that if you go to sell a 1300 hp modern turbine, you have to compete with the surplus stuff, that is much less expensive, but is a lot more thirsty and requires a lot of maintenance. That is why an upscale boat like we are talking about in this thread might make sense for a new turbine, the buyer here wants the best, and a modern turbine can deliver that.