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VETTEL / ALONSO

Discussion in 'F1' started by ginoBBi512, Mar 28, 2021.

  1. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2010
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    The greatest rally driver of his generation had several serious forays into various types of road racing and I thought he performed very credibly in most - but he didn't exactely blow everyone away. It would be ridiculous to think he would.

    Same came be said of top road racers dipping their toes into rallying. Most are quick, have great reactions and car control. But to do really well in either requires total commitment and lots of seat time. I think you're erroneously equating the the sheer quantity and scale of control input by pilot (and the spectacular attitude of the cars) as necessarily requiring more skill. I disagree, and think most IRL drivers would...
     
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  3. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    When you start a discussion with axioms such as these:
    "Rally is the series that really shows who are the best drivers in the world, its that simple." [sic]
    "When it comes to driving skill, WRC is the top , its that simple." [sic]
    No discussion is possible.
    Comparing drivers of different eras is very difficult, but from different disciplines it is impossible.
    It's probably why there are different championships ! ;)
     
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  4. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
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    #53 ginoBBi512, Apr 2, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021

    Thanks for your reply, I will stick to my guns on this, lol,, IRL is a joke, same as nascar, should not even be brought up in this conversation lol Its that simple, Rally racing is the absolute test on a drivers skill behind the wheel.Whether or not a WRC driver can win in another series, makes no difference. When F1 races in the rain, some of the drivers really shine, but it happens very little, WRC,
    your in the snow, the dirt, the rain, etc, your doing so much more behind the wheel , F1, how late can I brake, with my left foot , into a corner, and not overcook it, lap after lap , after lap,and how close can I get to the back of the driver in front of me, so I can try and pass, without going over the track limits, difficult, but no where near what the WRC guys are doing
    Thank you
     
  5. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2010
    604
    Just to clarify, I'm meant IRL as in "In Real Life" drivers, not the defunct "Indy Racing League" or Indycar :)

    Incidentally Nascar may not be your cup of tea, but the top drivers are top drivers...if you put guys like Elliot, Logano, Larson (especially those with dirt backround) in a rally car, I think you would find they would be very much at home and very quick, very quickly. A joke they are not...

    Anyway, you don't need to sell me on the merits of rallying or versatility rally drivers, they have my total respect. But as an inherently more difficult discipline, require more skill...no.
     
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  6. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
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    Oct 9, 2016
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    Thanks again, Im perplexed how you can even think, that a series that had drivers in it for ,many years, who were nothing but window dressing at best. (AKA DP ) can even compare to WRC or F1, Nascar is a joke, lets drive around a track , in circles, bumper to bumper, and see who crashes first, are you kidding me ? !!! Never in a million years would any of those drivers do well in WRC, I dont care what anyone says, its what it is. and its not. Period.Unless of course you were talking about some of the drivers in the 70s, lets say Andretti , Cale Yarborough, Petty, who drove successfully in multiple disciplines. That does not happen today , yes, you might say Tony Stewart, he did well in nascar . and irl, both being circle track, he also did well in dirt, still WRC, is a long cry from that, , WRC might as well be The Isle Of Man on four wheels, its that simple, it really is quite insane. Robert Kubitza almost got killed, when he left F1 for WRC.F1 is quite sterile when you compare it with WRC.

    Thank you

    Thank you


    Thank you
     
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  8. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
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    He's better than everyone on the current grid.
     
  9. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

    Jun 5, 2009
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    I’m a big fan of Formula One, but many of the participants in this forum don’t realize what level the current WRC drivers are at.
    Some even go so far as to say that their skills are solely based on improvisation, whereas the opposite is the truth. Yes, the current world rally deserves a much better audience and Ogier-Tanak-Neuville-Evans are truly heroes to me.
     
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  10. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    You need to start a WRC thread on Fchat.

    Thank you
     
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  11. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
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    What grid?
     
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  13. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
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    Great conversation fellows, its pretty cool how a thread stretches out here in F CHAT, and morphs into what we have been reading. We can have a great debate,as you can see here, standing strongly behind our beliefs and opinions, while having the upmost respect for one another. Im grateful for F CHAT, and all of you gentlemen as well. Hope you all have a great weekend.

    Thank you
     

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  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,552
    I would really like to see Alonso in a front of the grid car.
     
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  15. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    I agree that WRC rally guys are great instinctive drivers. however only a few have translated in to circuit racing and had success... but I agree F-1 drivers into Rally usually does not work. Raikonnen found that out pretty quickly. Sebastian Loeb is about the only one who I think really did the transition well... other than really bad BO.
     
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  16. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    I do think that a Top flight Rally drivers is probably one of the best real driving talents in the world. the reaction time, and skill needed is amazing. just to stay alive. let alone be fast. does it translate to circuit racing? not so sure. but I think its clear its harder to go from the track to gravel.
     
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  17. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    I think Vettel is in the Fog of war right now. He's remembering when he was top dog but his self-talk is saying different things... rather than ruin what is left of his reputation he should retire at the end of the season, become an ambassador for AM, race in lemans and WEC, or IMSA and maybe try Indy... try to go out while he can still call the shots.
     
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  18. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    I know why - there is not as much Money in the sport. its hard to charge admission to a WRC event, you cant sell ad space, and you cant get TV coverage covered by a sponsor or promoter because there is not enough revenue coming in. I'm amazed that the sport is even still running. I've been to the Monte.. or at least a stage of it, and the cars are CRAZY fast, and UBER dangerous... that was in 1989... Also the teams are not always huge car companies... that is part of the problem. Anyone remember Michele Mouton from the 80's... she was amazing... and should be celebrated today as a women pioneer in the sport... but no body knows of her - especially in the USA.
     
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  19. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Watching some of today's rally footage on TV, and seeing how unruly the spectators are on some stages, you can see how dangerous it is.
    I am surprised that a catastrophe of Le Mans 1955 proportion (85 deaths) hasn't happened yet.
    In contrast to circuit racing, the public is afforded no protection and is generally undisciplined.
    This is one of the reasons some car manufacturers have abandonned rallying; they don't want to be associated with a potential massive accident.
    Audi did admit it, and later Mazda too. They turned to endurance racing instead.
    Also, some rally fans are killing rallying with their antisocial attitude, as seen by some local authorities that don't want an event going through their jurisdiction anymore.
     
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  20. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

    Jun 5, 2009
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    Michele Mouton is a legend for all the rally lovers in France.
    She only lost the world championship against the mighty Walter Rohrl driving the monstrous Audi Quattro.

    A perfect scenario for a very successful film I am certain. Too bad that automotive is no longer politically correct..
     
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  21. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
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    Vettel sucks.

    Not even remotely debatable at this point...I've always seen him as an overrated driver even before him joining team red, which was as we all now know, was an extremely regrettable move by the Scuderia...
     
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  22. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Oui, Exactement! she was fantastic, and super fast, driving some of the highest HP cars in the most dangerous rallies....
     
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  23. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    I don't think so. but he's clearly lost his way.
     
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  24. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    He's been lost without Webber lmao.
     
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  25. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    BaWü
    Kimi was his comfort blanket. What a bland and lack luster pairing overall.

    Vettel - beaten by Ricci and Charles - never challenge by Kimi

    Kimi - mostly beaten by Massa - MASSA, and literally abused by Alonso.

    Will not miss either.
     
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  26. technom3

    technom3 F1 Veteran
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    And what's funny is... Those wrc drivers would not be top 20 around an oval.


    Thank you

    Thank you

    Thank you
     
  27. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    Mar 19, 2017
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    As a form a racing, where a driver is going flat out 100% of the time...where the car is perpetually hanging on the razor's edge of control and crashing...and conditions range from deep snow and black ice and rain and mud, to the rocks of Greece, the sands of Mexico, down narrow lanes barely as wide as the cars, through narrow streets, towns and tunnels, along the edges of cliffs...and with fans lining the courses...for me nothing is a spectacular as WRC rallies. The only claim to fame that F1 can make today is that it is the most unnecessarily complicated high tech racing in the world. But that isn't enough for me to call it the pinacle of motor sport. F1 has been coasting on its laurels for a long time. The best that can be said about F1 is that it is better than Indy cars, and that it is easy to televise.
     
  28. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    PS - Vettel and Alonzo can't even keep their own thread on track.
     

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