Don't be ridiculous. I'm not a hater, but you have shown your colours on many occasions with your anti (put the driver name here) comments.
Which is well proven over the last 4 years here in the forum...So nothing new ;-) Bye the way: this was a thread about Vettel and some of you succeeded again putting the discussion in direction of Hamilton...And then you wonder that some are starting to get tired of that and as soon as they say they are falsely labeled as "Hamitlon-Haters" just because he is not the centre of their universe...
Is it because he's white german with blonde hair and from a wealthy family? And hamilton acts like a rapper and is poor and badly dressed or whatever it was that you said lol.
Actually it was Aircon post #13 then followed by William post #16 that changed the subject but I guess you missed those post as you were reading the thread. Best Regards
that is why I said "some of you" and the usual suspects are here...And one could debate whether that was started with Post 10 or 13 but that is not my point. The quesion is just why we have to talk about that in every single thread???
I was going to respond but instead I'll say this. IMO Vettel had a car that was very good on down force where it counts and even though it was not fast in a straight line he was able to utilize the down force to his advantage better the Mark Webber could. I never counted Webber as a great driver. More middle of the pack racer that found himself in an outstanding car. With the rising of Riccardo Vettel has been effectively found out. An above average drive with a hugely dominate car. That being said he made the most of it and is a 4x WDC. Again I doubt that would have been the case if the before mentioned drivers were alongside him in the same car.
Agreed, with a more competitive team mates I would not be a four time WDC, maybe just once or twice. Unfortunately we will never know for sure. On the other side it is nothing new that one needs the best car to become WDC, even the great JM Fangio had the talent to choose the right car before the season, be it the Mercedes W196, the Lancia-Ferrari D50 or the Maserati 250F. Rarely a driver was as outstanding that he won in really inferior cars. Even Senna did not become WDC every year although not few think that he had much more talent than every one else at the grid. A good/great driver might make the difference in single races but rarely over the entire season. Great drivers have the advantage that their chances are higher to end up in the best car as the teams want them. Schumacher said long before Vettel went to Red Bull that he might become his successor so he saw some talent. The problem for Vettel is that he came from Red Bulls junior team so there is no comparaison with other drivers in other teams as he was groomed internal. This is the reason why I think he will go to Ferrari one day...He has 4 WDC so he is in the record books, one more with RB will not make much difference as this will not take away the doubts from his critics, but a WDC in another team would give his previous 4 another evaluation.
You are the one bringing it up, I was merely making a comparison that Vettel had, had even more bad luck than Hamilton I think, so is that now verboten?... Maybe you should put me on ignore, so as to remove my apparent usual suspect static, it could make your visit on here a pleasant experience, it is there for that reason.
I have read your comment a few times now because it struck a chord ..... and I tend to agree with everything you say but I think the jury is still out on how good Dan is compared to Vettel but Mark was never given the support in RB that Vettel had so it may be disingenuous to slag him off but I think he also was above average in a dominant car much the same as Jenson Button
+1, lets not forget he was in the running in 2009 as well despite not having a double deck diffuser. Showed 4x champ car champion (and therefore much more experienced driver in other fast cars as well) whose boss in the Toro Rosso's... -- I keep forgetting that he's only 57 points behind Ricciardo, considering his terrible luck over the entire season that's not bad at all actually...
One bad year does not make Vettel over rated. If he has a similar year next yes we might have a problem
Yes this is it, how much the car suited him < 4 WDC wise, or how good Ricci is, is the quandary. With what we have to go on, I'd say Ricci is a match for Vettel at min, but either way a fantastic pairing, and assuming RB let them continue to race each other, it should make for good racing in the future. Or Vettel jumps into a red beast..
Yes fully agree. At some point, no matter, someone will arrive and be better. Im betting Seb sleeps quite well!
I agree that while you can't take the 4 WDCs away from him, until he shows up successful for another team, he will always be discredited. He was very uninspiring in any other car but the Red Bull, minus his 1 win for Toro Rossa. Senna won with everyone but the Toleman (except the 2nd place Monaco "disaster") and the Williams even though he kept putting that car on pole. Schumacher won with Camel/Benetton and Ferrari. He needs another team to prove himself. I do find myself liking him a lot more this year though. BTW the 57 Points is basically with 1st and 2nd taken by the Mercs most of the races, so he's starting at 15 points. He's obviously a good driver, but i personally don't hold him with the elites. Alonso is the best in my opinion, but i believe Niki Lauda said it "He's like Ronnie Peterson, the fastest guy on the grid always in the wrong car"
There are not many other cars than RB and Toro Rosso...Except one single race in BMW Sauber which made him youngest driver ever to get a F1 point...So I do not really understand this argument...
Point is, he's only won in Red Bull, including winning a race (minus the toro rosso 1 win) Hamilton won with different teams, Raikkonen won with different teams, Alonso won with different teams, etc. He needs to switch teams to prove it in my opinion
Not necessarily. Raikkonen still sucks, winning with different teams didn't prove anything for him. If he wins another WDC when the red bull is less dominant that proves it just as well to the discerning and intelligent f1 fan. But maybe not to the masses. Difference between vettel and ricci aren't all that great in terms of pace alone. Vettel has had bad luck ricci good lixk
Obviously. Toil has self proclaimed multiple times he's ALWAYS right therefore you can only be right if you share his opinion (or fact? Whatever he calls it).
+1 IMO he was deeply impressive in the TR. In his 5th or so F1 race (this time held in Fuji but mistakenly in a swimmingpool) he lead the GP but was in a strong 3rd position after all the pit stops only retiring due to a collision with Webber which in the end was Hamilton's fault...this was backed up by finished in 4th the race after. His following season with TR was immensely strong, including that win....and first year in the RB he was a challenger for the title when the Brawn didn't develop...
