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Discussion in 'F1' started by 444sp, May 28, 2019.
Autosport journalists feel the same:
Again with these flat 2 dimensional comparisons as if “driving” is the only skill, responsibility or influence that an F1 driver has on the team and the championships. Driving skill isn’t the only quality one must possess to be a champion. Maybe Vettel ISN’T a “great” driver according to your opinion. So then the not “great” driver won FOUR championships with his OK driving skill and his likable personality in an environment that knew how to give him the support he needs to perform and thrive rather than the two championships won by the undeniably “great” driver FA with his horrific personality and habitual team killing attitude and actions. Team after team and company after company through F1 and now LeMans leaving a trail of bad blood. FA is a F’n A hole and his irrefutable superior skill cannot overcome his devastating impact on EVERY organization he comes into contact with. His relationships NEVER end well and it’s always the teams fault or the companies fault. IF driving skill is the ONLY skill we want to compare and differentiate drivers then we have to go to a UNIFORM sport. All cars must be the EXACT SAME SPEC AND BUILD. Ohhhh yeah that’s right those series suck and that’s why we watch F1 in the First Place.
FA challenged equally to MS, destroyed the all personality Kimi and had no issues with Felipe both in equal machinery. Id take FA over Vettel anyday. We just need a support structure right LOL
4 minus 2. What was the tally of points he gave to MB in 2017 and 2018? 140? 2 championships lost on the back of his complete inability to drive when there are other cars around. These are not new criticisms, either. They predate his stint in F1.
SV has not learned a single thing in all these years in F1. He still drives like a drugged monkey dragging its anus from one end of the Sahara to the other.
You are talking about Fernando Alonso, I presume? The guy that was so hated by all his teams that Renault signed him twice? The same guy that was so hated by McLaren that they signed him twice and fielded two Indy efforts with him as their main driver? The same Fernando Alonso that won two LeMans championships with Toyota and is signed on for another year? THAT Fernando Alonso? The same Fernando Alonso that grew tired of Honda engines (He lost hist first Indy effort because the Honda let go), and McLaren went from 2nd to dead last to 4th this year by getting rid of Honda. THAT Fernando Alonso?
Oh, i see Seb again responsible for losing the 2017 championship alone... after both Ferrari were taken out by Max and the spark plug failure the championship was over. Everything after that was just the desperate attempt to change what was already certain.
And in 2018 Seb screwed it in Hockenheim, that is true... but one should keep in mind that Ferrari developed in the wrong direction and Mercedes sorted their tire issues over the summer break. So even without Sebs mistakes it is highly questionable whether Ferrari would have won the title. Most likely Mercedes would have simply not left their "trick rims" unused for two races as they did...
Solely blaming Seb for the defeat is way too simple minded in my opinion. He had his share in the defeat but it was the entire team, be it engineer, strategists and driver
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You are 100% right ,
Mercedes in 2017 and 2018 was the best car/team.
No way Ferrari could have beat them on a 21 races championship.
Seb is a very fast driver but he seems absolutely deflated now.
Maybe time for him to enjoy family and others things !
How a Red Bull-era weakness is still plaguing Vettel
As Sebastian Vettel suffered another high-profile mistake at Silverstone, his young Ferrari team-mate was impressing once more at the sharp end. Our technical expert explains a flaw Vettel showed at Red Bull, and how it is rearing its ugly head again
Charles Leclerc again put Ferrari team-mate Sebastian Vettel to shame during the British Grand Prix weekend at Silverstone. Leclerc was faster all weekend, and it was Vettel that made a big error and drop-kicked Max Verstappen into the gravel while trying to reclaim third place.
The catalogue of Vettel mistakes is getting longer and longer and this was just another that simply didn't need to happen. He must address this immediately, otherwise even the hope of finishing third in the drivers' championship will be long gone given Verstappen is 13 points ahead of Vettel, and Leclerc is just three points further back.
Over the past season's worth of races, stretching back to Germany 2018, we've seen so many mistakes. At Hockenheim, he locked up and crashed while leading; at Monza, he spun after clashing with Lewis Hamilton; at Austin, he spun battling with Daniel Ricciardo; at Suzuka he clashed with Verstappen; in Bahrain this year he spun again battling with Hamilton and in Canada he went off the track and earned a penalty for the way he rejoined. He's going at a rate of one big in-race error every three races.
Watching from the BRDC suite at Brooklands on both Friday and Saturday, you could see Leclerc was hustling the car. When he was coming off the brakes and getting on the throttle he was on it hard, but Vettel was on more of an afternoon cruise.
He said he wasn't happy with the feeling from the car but what I saw was someone that wasn't putting it on the line anywhere near as much as the other frontrunners - Hamilton, Valtteri Bottas, Leclerc or Vestappen.
If anything, the Ferrari would break into understeer, which some drivers like and can cope with, but I don't think Vettel has ever been one of those. In the old days of exhaust-blown diffusers, he was the master. On corner entry the rear was always on the move but he knew that when he planted the throttle the rear would grip, so he had the front end for corner entry and the rear for corner exit. The balance switch was the throttle, which he controlled.
The one season that Red Bull struggled early on to get the exhaust-blown diffuser working was when Mark Webber stepped up to the plate. Either Webber could drive the car without the increased grip from getting the throttle open or he couldn't make use of it when it did work. Either way, for those early races he performed better than Vettel.
It's not like that with these cars and the balance characteristics are basically what you have. As I said a few weeks ago, I believe - and more so now from watching the cars at Silverstone - that the Mercedes makes more use of an aerodynamic balance shift with varying steering lock.
When they apply more lock, the aero load moves forward and increases the front grip. When Ferrari applies more lock, the car just understeers more. More lock is required in slower corners, which is where the rear of the Mercedes is lively, but the Ferrari in Vettel's hands just suffers from understeer.
The drivers' championship domination of 2010-13 is a distant memory. Vettel has now been at Ferrari for five seasons, and both parties thought more success would come
Clearly Ferrari had a championship winning car 2017&18. Bottas finished 3rd 2017 & 5th 2018. Vettel beat Bottas both years and led the championship both years. Hamilton just drove better.
Problem is Vettel has a valid contract for next year. Could be expensive to get rid of him.
Just use the Kimi release method. Your paid and thank you lol
How about swapping him with Gio?
How Binotto still backs him as Number One, putting all his eggs in the same basket, is simply beyond comprehension.
I don't know what he did to get there, but Giovinazzi seems to me completely lost in F1.
Both side just need to be mature about it and find a compromise exit strategy.
Seb is a decent guy, SF need to be decent with him.
I don't know who Sebs agent is though, lets hope he is better than most of them in modern sport !
Seb is his own agent as far as I know
yep he is not exactly shining so far.also Mick S is not a standout for now anyway.
When he eventually goes i would imagine he will sort of disappear completely,no social media etc etc just enjoy life with his family ,nothing wrong with that.You not going to see him vlogging like Rosberg!
Ferrari needs another Michael Schumacher, or a well timed Kimi.
Not going to be an easy find !
The ability to drive with a broken seat and zero power steering, Max is probably their best bet.
Gio had only one 10th place so far; he doesn't seems like Scuderia material to me.
The Young Schumi seems to me to be far from ready to step in F1, if ever ...
Hey, don't you guys think it would be an awesome opportunity for Ferrari to bring Rosberg onboard?
Good for him and that really should help.
The question is will he admit to himself that its time for a change or does he see the situation as recoverable?
Its is sad though that we have had another champion come to us and not win the crown.
Lots to think about there for SF analysts and historians.
Do ex champs come to us to tick a career ending box when past their best ?
Have we, in the modern era, not been a good enough team to give them the means to win again?
Should we say never again, to FA or HAM or who ever?
I think Charles is the future and although both of the above would win races for us, the model is broken.
Somebody call Kimi ?
What a fanciful idea ...
Young schumi is not formula one material.
You just have to compare his first formula 2 season ( prema team ) with the Leclerc's one ( with prema team also )
Perhaps Ferrari should re-examine their whole racing strategy from top to bottom, instead of just wallpaparing over the cracks all the time.
The way they approach F1 now is certainly not paying dividends.
Man, you were pretty outspoken about this FA "toxicity" and how Vettel would be a Schumacher 2nd coming and bring together a championship winning team...news flash, it doesn't seem to have materialized, yet despite all these "toxic" talks, people at Ferrari still sing, some have even gone as far as stating that had FA been still with Ferrari he would've won another championship.
Every driver has baggage, every driver has strengths, I'm with the people who live and breathe rarified F1 air, FA > Vettel any day of the week.