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Vettel plans to retire at the end of 2019

Discussion in 'F1' started by 444sp, May 28, 2019.

  1. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    I agree on all these points. Mercedes has made itself essential in F1, for the time being that is.
    It's the largest investor in F1 right now.
    Mercedes not only funds a F1 team (500M $ a year perhaps?), but also spends considerably to develop its hybrid power unit and become supplier to several teams. These power units are apparently sold/leased well below real market value; you never hear Williams or Force India complain, do you?.
    Sometimes Mercedes did write off the debts of unsolvable clients to allow them to stay in F1.
    Mercedes has sponsored the German GP when the promoters couldn't finance it any more.
    Mercedes has also partly financed some Far-East GPs, helping to extend the calendar.
    If all this is put together, Mercedes probably spends in the region of 1B $ a year in F1.
    No Wonder then that Liberty takes notice !!

    Mercedes has made itself an essential player to F1, just like Ford was for a while.
    Ford not only it powered 80% of the grid, but subsidised events, sponsored teams, etc ...
     
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  2. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Not long ago you told us that you can not stand corruption and now you defend Mercedes to outspent the rest "investing" into F1 to make themselves "essential"... that does not add up at all.
    If liberty and the FIA can be influenced by spending money on the series, what would you call that other than being corrupt ??? Does the one spending most get preferred treatment?

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  3. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    Not me, my pockets are not that deep...and i doubt Ferrari can match Mercedes in that department either..
     
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  4. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Well, that should put an end to the "Ferrari gets too much" complains. Ferrari earned it through the years, Mercedes just bought it.

    Must be noted that not only Mercedes sells their engines below their real cost: it´s mandated to all manufacturers in exchange for the abolition of the infamous token system, that greatly beneffited Mercedes. As the most rich of the manufacturers, selling the engines below cost hurts them less than the others, so it was a win-win situation for them. The engines are expensive because they lobbied to make them that way, so Toto shouldn´t complain anyway.

    Also they´re not the only ones who wrote off debts. I´m tempted to say that Ferrari and Renault did it more often, they even supplied teams that went bankrupt and Sauber is still dependant on FCA money.

    So when I read here things like "oh, look how smart Mercedes is" I don´t know if I should laugh or cry. Yes, they did a good job, but not only that: they win through money and strong-arm tactics too. But everything is fair in war, I suppose.
     
  5. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Well said.

    +1 Yep
     
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  6. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    superb post
     
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  7. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    #132 crinoid, May 30, 2019
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
    Nope.
     
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  8. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    As seen at Mercedes between 2014-2016... that team harmony was exceptional

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  9. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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  10. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    neither does winnow!
     
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  11. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    I don't see why people are so surprised or shocked that F1 is run like any other business by powerful companies.
    In the real world, large companies are able to lobby, influence, obtain advantage that set them apart from other business, no?
    Mercedes does all the things you say because it suits them, but they are not a charity.
    Look around you, rich and powerful countries make the rules and the others just obey them!
    I may be cynical saying that, but that's the truth.
     
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  12. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    We know you are, but that doesn't mean we have to like it...
     
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  13. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    In Spanish there is an old adage: "con buena picha, bien se jode". Wich translates into something like: "with a good d**k, it's easy to f**k .

    There is not argument against money. But then you should refrain from many of your comments about how perfect and teutonic Mercedes is. This era of Mercedes domination has a big asterisk above it. Like many others before, to be honest.
     
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  14. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    In the 60s, less in the 70s, Ferrari was the boss because the company had been in F1 since the begining.
    The other players like Maserati, Alfa Romeo, Mercedes, Gordini, Vanwall, etc... were gone.
    Ferrari's influence at the FIA was mostly because of its seniority in the sport, its experience and results.
    Ferrari got away with many things, not only in F1, but in sportscars, in GT, at Le Mans, etc ...

    Fast forward in 2010, and the values have completely changed.?
    F1 is a money maker, and those that bring the most, get the most out.
    At the moment it's Mercedes, tomorrow it may be another company, or perhaps a major advertiser, who knows

    In parallel, just look how the ACO literally kowtowed to AUDI to make sure to have at least one factory team at Le Mans.
    They wrote new rules for Diesel (!!!) engines, then hydrid engine, created equivalency to ensure AUDI won (many times).
    It's the same in F1.

    Coming back to Mercedes: I can't help but admire their efficiency and technical excellence.
    Why should I refrain from applauding that? They are the best team I have seen in operation since I follow F1, back in 1961.
    I think they will be a hard act to follow when they leave.
     
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  15. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Absolutely, just like I don't agree with everything you write...
     
  16. Surfah

    Surfah Formula 3

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    I'd take an in form Alonso over a 2018-19 SV everyday and twice on Sunday. His ceiling is #3 WDC for this season and if Maxine continues his torrid pace likely #4.

    But yeah, Scuderia has team harmony so there's that.:rolleyes:
     
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  17. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    I don’t think the current Mercedes team is any more efficient or special than the Ferrari team of 1999 thru 2006, with Jean Todt, Michael Schumacher, Ross brawn and Rory Byrne.... they too were an unstoppable force as a team, winning much, rare failures, and exercising extreme political influence..... times change, but there’s no reason to try to hold Mercedes up as some shining example when what they are doing is destroying the racing and likely accelerating the demise of F1
     
  18. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    I afre, Ferrari team for 99/06 was the ebst that ever was, in every single department, Merc wins because no doubt they have a perfect organization but above all, because rules gave them a hugeadventage over the competition, Ferrari did it without having rules made for them, and in those sdays, you could test, develop at any rate you wanted, so if a more competent team arrived, it was relatively easy to catch. Ferrari had the best car but there where times on they won on pure strategy together with Michaels brilliant performances, Ross was the best i ever saw on a pitwall. mercedes are very efficient, but thye are far from Ferrari's brilliant team, just kile elton in relation to Michael.
     
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  19. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari have a “veto”. A very powerful tool. Let’s give it to Lance-Point Racing and see the results lol :)
     
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  20. 375+

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    :D:D
     
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  21. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    The debate is back in the press with Canada result. Interesting opinions - https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/26947999/will-vettel-f1-grid-2020

    The Canadian Grand Prix was an F1 classic which quickly turned into an F1 farce -- Sebastian Vettel's controversial penalty cost him the victory and led him to suggest he is no longer in love with the sport.
    Our F1 writers Laurence Edmondson and Nate Saunders join columnists Maurice Hamilton and Kate Walker in talking over the biggest talking points after seven races of 2019.

    Do you expect Sebastian Vettel to still be in F1 next year?
    LE: If the season ended tomorrow I'd have my doubts, but deep down he'll know 2020 is his last chance to set things right at Ferrari. He's too much of a fan of the team and the sport to pass that opportunity up. Ferrari will be looking to 2021 - when the driver market opens up - for his replacement, though.

    NS: He sounded done on Sunday. There's a lot of racing left in 2019 and that could go one of two ways -- drain him to the point he doesn't want to carry on, or fire him up for a title challenge in red. The dynamic at Ferrari is likely to play a role in it but I'd be surprised if the Italian team isn't already considering life without Vettel at the helm.

    MH: If he keeps making mistakes like Bahrain and Canada, he may feel he has no choice but to leave. Indeed, if you offered the option of quitting for good on Sunday evening, he might have taken it, given the introspective feeling-sorry-for-myself mood he was in. It's down to Sebastian to sort himself out. But I'm beginning to wonder if his confidence has been seriously undermined. If Leclerc genuinely puts one over Vettel more than once, I'd say Seb will be out of here by 2020.

    KW: Yes. While he's understandably frustrated at the moment -- not least after Canada -- he's still a racer through and through. The excitement we heard over the radio when he scored pole isn't the kind of thing you can fake, and it's that adrenaline that powers him and the others on the grid. I don't think he'll find it easy to walk away from the highs despite this current low.
     
  22. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
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    Vettel really needs to sort himself out,fast.

    If he continues on his present trajectory instead of being remembered as the Boy Wonder from RBR ,it will be as the Boy Blunder from Ferrari.:eek:
     
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  23. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    Can he surpass his 2018 'moments' in 2019?He is off to a 'good' start!

     
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  24. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    He reached his peak and has descended now in glaring fashion. Like Kimi has been retained too long. 4 titles long ago not hinting at a true talent but an over rated one. Vettel continues like the last 2 seasons. Fast, with needless error. Ferrari should release him and get the house in order for the new regs in 2021.
     
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  25. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    It’s a brave team principle that sacks off a four time world champion when there is no decent replacement available, the Italian press would murder Binotto for sacking the makeshift ‘step-son of Schumi’. Vettel has to leave of his own accord, or at the end of a contract not renewed, I don’t see him going anywhere quickly. In the emantime, they must honour their agreements, and keep bringing leclerc along, but must start treating him much better, as he is the future. Seb has to find his head (harder now after the weekend no doubt) or he really will be considering going fishing in November!
     
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