Veyron - can Ferrari match it's engineering achievement?

I think Bugatti have followed in Ettore's foot steps quite nicely. One thing you can say about Ferdinand Piech is that he knows about cars, and what makes them special.

All Bugattis have been special... even the ugly mundane ones... these cars were thousands of $$$ when a model T was $200. So they have stayed true to the brand.

I for one dont think that Ferrari and Bugatti are real competitors... Bugatti is about towering performance with cosseting luxury... while Ferrari are all about performance, racing and style.

Bugatti's have always been over engineered... ever look at a type 35? thing is built like a tank!...thats why they have been able to continue racing for the past 70 years and maintain their ability to win against their peers to this day.

I think the Bugatti Veryon will still be a rare and exotic 50 years from now... I can picture someone 80 years in the future talking about how quaint and ingenious the workmanship is, how all the crude and basic elements are well done, and finely made.... I dont think many people say that about current day Ferrari's ... 80 years from now they will say how pretty they were... or at least say that about 308 - 355 series... 360 and 430... who knows, they will be mixed up with Mitsubishi's....

The point is Bugatti has always been about a certain way of doing things, overcoming transportation with sheer mass and power.... Type 57, Royal, and now Veryon... all are cars, that get you from point a to b, but they do it in such an overwhelming way, its hard to comprehend why someone would do it that way.

Thats what Ettore Buggatti did, and that is what VW have done with the Veryon. I'll never be able to afford one, but will always respect its place in history.... and be envious of anyone with one!

 

The problem I have with the Veyron engineering is that the guys who designed it just kept adding stuff to solve their problems. I read about the thermal issues they had with the engine (whose design has its roots in a 4 cylinder Golf engine IIRC, and thus was never meant to have 16 cylinders or putting out 1000hp), their solution consisted adding more and more cooling devices, it added up to a ridiculous number of radiators and fans. True mastership comes with achieving the task with minimum effort - they failed that, imho

 

I think if you lenghtened the wheelbase, took out about 1000 lbs., and made it look a bit like this you'd have something...
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All of the above mentioned feats of human engineering mentioned in the above posts are fine and dandy, but I am surprised that the most incredible of all was not even mentione...the thermos bottle. It keeps hot liquids hot and cold liquids cold...but how does it know???????????

 

You have a pretty good eye for design-flow concept's Jim!

 

A.I. my friend but you did not hear it from me, wink wink!

 

I completely agree with your way of thinking. The Veyron is the most technologly car ever produced in its catagory. A fellow that I know has an Enzo and a Veyron, and he will be the first tell you that the Veyron is so far ahead of the enzo in every catagory that the two cars cannot be compared. That being said, if I were to buy one of the two, it would be the Enzo, simply because 1. I think it is wonderful looking compared to the Veyron and 2, it is a Ferrari.

 

Don't really think calling me soft in the head is very appropriate for insulting something that has no feelings. It's just a car, mate, and I just happen to think it's a bit excessive. That's all. I understand the one-up mentality that seems to pervade the American car scene (I'm a 21 year old that has owned nothing but Japanese imports), but at the same time appreciate the quality and craftmanship that European companies seem to possess over there lesser brethren. Given the choice I'd take many things German over many more American. I was merely making the point that, as someone pointed out earlier, it seemed to me that Bugatti went about the wrong way doing things when building the car. It's too complicated.

Yes, the Saleen S7 by a lot of measures is a race car with blinkers and an extra three inches of ground clearance, but I think it adds to the appeal. A wonderful rolling middle finger flying in the face of automotive convention. A great trait that all supercars share. To say that it's horrible and belongs in a pile of garbage is a bit much, I think, as it matches the performance levels that are the reason many people give the Veyron it's credit. Give credit where credit is due, as I'm sure Mr. Saleen would tell you that he put just as much love into his car as the folks at Audi did theirs.

The Veyron is clearly the "better" car, as cars are defined by all around performance in every aspect of driving. It succeeds dramatically in every single aspect. But I still think it's slightly silly to create all that fuss over 400 km/hour. It's just too complicated.

Still a great car, though.

 

Actually when you really think about it the Veyron and the S7 are the best of both word's. Stupid insane performance from both car's which will most likely squash any and all competitor's and you have two totally different word's in which to live-in. One is plush, smooth a just downright civilized for it's performance potential and the other has just as much of that performance but give's you that 'Man this car make's me feel like I'm competeing in a FIA LeMan's Serie's race, I'm stoked!!!!!

 

You know i like that idea. Hopefully they make a car that can be in the 150k Grand tourer category, to compete with a db9 or something.

 

Now your talking!!!! and about taking off 2000lbs...

 

How about 1500...

 

The Veyron has something that set the automotive world on it's ear. I do like the car and think it is special. I would not mind owning one.

 

Although I still like the McLaren F1, Carrera GT, and Enzo better than the Veyron, there is absolutely no denying that the Veyron is a huge engineering achievement, probably much more of an achievement then any other car put into production. As someone mentioned earlier, it was built with an entirely different philosophy then the cars that companies like Ferrari and Porsche put out. It seems like some people kind of get on the defensive when there is a threat to their beloved marque (not anyone in this thread, just a general statement). I always give respect where respect is due and the Veyron is no joke. My question is, how can anyone who loves cars NOT like the Veyron?

 

Simple: beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

To me, The Veyron looks bulbous, ovoid, disjointed, and the big cooling inlet ducts on top kill any semblance of design harmony and stylistic balance.

Of course, some might learn to better appreciate it when compared to the latest, upcoming design: The Bugatti Royale.

What a big rear, I mean, bustle.

Baby Got Back, indeed.

Sure, Audi is pouring big bucks into their BigAudi marque, and many people like it, but the car is not nearly as beautiful, timeless, or as magnificent as the originals from lo, those many years ago.
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+1

So building one of the fastest street legal cars in the world, that is very comfortable to drive back and forth to work, that also looks absolutely incredible (subjective) isn't impressive? How about just taming 16 cylinders with 4 turbos? That's not impressive? What does impress you, the space shuttle with wheels? Jeesh..

That's sexy

 

I wasn't referring to the looks of the car but the engineering that went into it and the high capabilities that it is.

 

Ferdinand Piech said in Car magazine UK (August 2006) "We now make money on every Veyron sold".

 

Um sorry, but that title is held by all those involved in the Apollo missions to the moon. THAT is the greatest engineering achievement of the 20th century, and will be remembered as one of the absolute greatest human achievements of all time. It was never done before, and to date has never been done since.

 

This is not the NASA forum thus the relevance of this reply is let's just say 'far fetched'?

 

No it isn't, but when he uses words like "greatest engineering achievement" he should have included the word automotive.

 

Getting back on topic.

What Ferrari can do to match the Veyron is to make their cars extremely reliable. To the point that they set milage records. The styling and performance is already there.

 

Agreed.

 

The design of the Ferrari Enzo is capable of reaching over 250mph, but inside Ferrari they didn't want to make the car go that fast and the project was to have a perfect balanced car all around. Ferrari can better the Veyron, but that isn't their game and Ferrari buyers that play at that kind of money could always buy a Veyron or even better, a Ferrari Formula 1.

 

A modern Ferrari F1 car is more complex, advance and a engineering marvel over a Space Shuttle!