Veyron - can Ferrari match it's engineering achievement?

Ferrari with It's winning F1 team has the engineering expertise to better the Bugatti. I don't think Ferrari has much to gain by doing so. Ferrari's true engineering
achievements come at the track, not on the road. Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go? Thats all it is.

 

I'm a think'in no.

 

Sold!

 

From what I've seen the Saleen S7 shouldnt be categorized with that Ultimate Aero hunk of junk. Now the Saleen shouldnt really be compared to the Veyron either. The Veyron is an amazingly powerful and luxurious GT car, the Saleen S7 is a race car with modifications to be street legal, and the SSC is a loosely thrown together parts bin with a rocket strapped to it. To sum it up I definately would not categorize the S7 as a kit car.

 

It's surprising how many people are unable to be objective when merely talking about machines.

 

I'll try to find the article of where I saw this.

 

The SS is based on early 70's technology at the latest, more like late 60's. I believe up until '89 or so the shuttle still used core memory even when microprocessors were available. It is safe to say all our computers used to post on Fchat are more advanaced than anything the early shuttle had. But why use obsolete technology? Because they knew for sure that it worked in redundant systems, and when designing a machine with millions of individual components minimizing possible failure points was important.

I agree that a current F1 car is more refined than the shuttle, but as a system from launch pad to touch down the shuttle is far more complex. An F1 car has to work for 90 minutes, a failure usually means simply no points. The shuttle (or Apollo) has to work nearly perfectly for days, and even a minor failure could mean catastrophic destruction.

BTW, virtually all of the neat materials seen on an F1 car were first used in aerospace.

 

I understand this and there's no arguing with any of it of course. If I remember right it was something I saw out of a magazine from Ferrari, lol. I also used to fly helicopters for a while and prefer "obsolete" old and tried to the latest technology, just like I would feel better in a 747 over the new A380.

 

I don't understand how anyone can say a Formula 1 care is better then a Veyron its comparing apples and oranges. Neither is better then the other just serve different purpose. For instance, the Veyron is "better" at driving a friend, while the F1 car is "better" at track times. However you can't really say one is over all "better" then another.

 

Both schools of thought are true. Dr Piech says that because VW wrote off the development cost of the car. Therefore in terms of each car made Bugatti makes a profit. If you put that development cost back in they lose huge amounts of money per car.

The Bugatti is engineering excellence, but design stupidity. As Gordon Murray says "any decent engineer would have put the project in a coffin and nailed the lid shut". Over 800 engineering clashes had to be solved. The trouble was the whole project was defined by two numbers. 400km/h and 1000hp. Either could have been achieved relatively easily but together it was a nightmare. To get the 1000hp you need that immense engine, which then creates all the cooling issues, which then created all the weight. Also the original Veyron shape was incredibly unstable at high speed, hence all the active aerodynamics on the thing. Thanks to Dr Piech's stubborness, he wouldn't compromise, and I'm glad he didn't.

They have created something truly epic. Time will soon tell how reliable the thing is, but immensely luxurious and you would never ever tire of that acceleration. The big problem for me is that at no point in the project was driver involvement or enjoyment a priority. A quote from EVO "you don't contain understeer or oversteer because you would never dream of provoking them".

As for the actual topic!!! I was thinking about this last night actually. I think in its own way the F430 Scuderia is an equal acheivement. It has moved the whole sports car game on. Suddenly all other gearboxes are dim witted and slow. Suddenly there is no excuse for a rock hard ride in a sports car. While I still prefer cars with no stability program (and you CAN turn it off in the 430S) the way it is calibrated to make everyone look like a hero is simply brilliant.

The Enzo successor will be amazing I think. I can't wait to see what Ferrari comes up with with its new light weight supercar.

 

look at the 400i, state of the art

 

Would you please point out where I compared the Veyron to a Formula 1?

 

What's the source of the assumption that Veyron's are "extremely reliable"? Except for the one the journos flog are any of them driven at all?

"Mileage records"?

 

Thinking being the salient characteristic.

 

IMO Veyron stands for an engineering feat that started out with a very difficult task and ended up costing a ton of money. It's something people havn't seen for a long time. It's VW groups playing 'Howard Hughs' in the 21st century. The Veyron is the crowning achievement of people who wanted to leave their mark in history and don't mind throwing money at their problems. It's passion, possibly lunacy. Still.......

I was never really impressed by the design of the Veyron, it looks either like a Beetle (the insect, not the car) or a very fast pig. I am way more impressed by the design of the Audi R8 than the Veyron. As previous posters stated, the way engineers throw money at the car to solve their problems isn't really all that impressive if you think about it. What is so innovative about using horsepower to overcome aerodynamic drag and then put in 20 radiators to keep the engine from turning into a pile of molten metal? Feel comfortable driving at 200+mph? Thr greatest (automobile) engineering feat of the 20th-21st century? Nah~ I'll place Toyota's Hybrid Syndergy drive and in-car navigation system over the Veyron. That's similar to designing a golf kart with a top speed of 100mph - where would you drive it?