Viewing 348 belts while in car?

I'm just curious, is there any way to see the condition of the timing belts on a 348 without removing the motor? what about through the bottom inspection plate?

 

Yes you can see them from the top and bottom of the engine.

The easiest way is from the top. There is a belt cover cap on each side of the engine. They cover the cam pullies. There are four allen bolts that hold the caps in place. Revome those and lift the caps off. Viola, you can see the belts.

From the bottom it isn't easy to see them. There is a cut out on the bottom left side ot the belt cover, for insection of the tentioner bearing. You can see the back of the tentioner bearing as it is pushing against the timing belt. That cut out is more for viewing the bearing than it is the belt.

So of you want to see the belt just take the caps off from the top.

 

Once you remove the covers.Can you actually get a good look at the teeth on the belt????? The covers are behind the rear window,i can barely reach up there and im 6'2. You may have to use a step ladder and then try not to scratch or dent your rear quarter panels leaning in there to have a look(with a telescopic mirror also i reckon?). Maybe i just have stumpy arms?? LOL
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You will see the top of the belt going over the cam pully. If you want to see the teeth you could probably use a dentists mirror.

If you really wants get radical you could take off the engine cover. But that is a bit much just to look at the belt.

 

Mmmmmmmmmmm................I didnt think you would see much with just the top cam cover off. Dont worry about removing the cam/engine covers either,unless you wanna replace the gaskets ect....(maybe not neccesarily either) I reckon to check the condition of the belt properly but,you would have to check around the timing belt teeth area for sure,as they are more than likely to fail 1st(stripped teeth off the belt). You'll need a lead light(torch),"dentists'" mirror and a long reach! LOL! Good luck friend!

 

Is there any reason why the cam cover cap shouldn't be transparent instead of opaque black?

 

Two inspection caps on top (see pic):
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Maybe be cause you cannot see **** all with them transparent or not,being in the spot they are in? Maybe also a cost factor?? If the engine was around the other way,timing belt facing towards you/back of car(wont happen in a mid engined ferrari),that would be understandable i guess. Like a lot of guys with their jap cars,they leave the top of the cam cover off,to show off their flash adjustable cam gear/s(Easy to check the timing belt but hehe) But it is crazy,cause alot of dust ect... can get onto the belt and shorten its life. But hey,they are a different group of car nuts altogether! LOL

 

Well here is the problem. The car has 11,064 miles so I called Ferrari of Central Florida. I told them I bought a 348 Ferrari and there is no history of the belts ever being replaced, can you check to see if I have aftermarket belts, or see if it has been replaced, or see and tell me if they are ready to break since I dont know anything about its condition. He told me 100% impossible!!! the motor has to be removed. I asked about the lower inspection plate, he said you can not see anything from it. I asked how much would it cost just for 1 belt and bearings, he quoted me 8,000$(without valve adjustment), and went into a big speech about how the car is worth more if they service it. He then said even with the motor out, there is no way to know if the belt has ever been replaced as they all look the same. He went on telling me that he has never seen a belt last over 7 years and when they replaced it, it crumbled in his hands.

My question is, if the belt was replaced then logic says it has less then 11,000 miles and should still have some type of markings on it. If the belt can be seen why would Ferrari tell me its impossible? Do you think they are just trying to scare people into bringing it in. The guy was more then nice, he sounded more like a used car salesman then a service guy, he was very people oriented and professional, he even invited me to the service shop to see how much work is involved and why they charge 8K.

Whats your opinions?

 

A visual inspection of the belt is pointless. The belt is held togethor by a fiberous band encased in the middle- the rubber does little.

No way to look at a belt and say it is about to break or not.

 

A visual inspection is not really totally pointless. As i mentioned earlier,if you get the covers off and can reach in there and have a look at the belt teeth and overall condition,you can tell if the belt is perished(old) or starting to perish which would make you change it straight away of course. But yeah,you cant really look at timing belt and tell when it is goin to break or not? That can even happen brand new from the box!

 

FYI, the cam belt on my former 348 Spider was changed by Shelton without removing the engine...they dropped the fuel tank to get to the rear of the engine...but, it is my understanding that you have to be very careful as you cannot re-degree the cam that way due to lack of room.

 

Acutally, now that you mention that, the guy i bought my car off, said that they are doin that instead of removing the engine these days at his ferrari mechanics' workshop. Thats right. You remove the undertray and then drop the fuel tank out and its like a 4 hour job in/out apparently?? Im not sure how true that is but yeah! Has anyone done their own that way? Thats how ill be doin mine later this year reckon.

 

Wow, That sounds great, I wonder if there is enough room to replace the bearings too? Guess its time to run the gas out of it.

 

I think so. If you can get the belt off,im sure you can remove the bearings also.

 

But, if you do not properly secure the cam you end up having to remove the engine anyway to re-degree the cams.

 

You mean by using cam locks?

 

A visual inspection of the timing belt is not really going to tell you anything. If you don't know how old it is, you need to replace it because the cost of that is far less than the cost of what happens if it breaks or slips due to teeth coming off.

The belt in a 348 can be done with the engine in the car, but several here have pointed out that removing the engine in a 348 isn't that bad of a job because it's on a sub-frame designed to be removed easily. But if ALL you want to do is replace the belts, then maybe it's easier. Not sure if you can service the water pump in the car with the fuel tank out, but this is often mentioned as a smart thing to do when doing a 348 belt service.

If you decide to replace just the belt, you need to lock the cam pulleys so they don't move or you are screwed.

Birdman

 

The reason that Ferrari put the cam cap covers on 348's was so that we could visually inspect the timing belt (you can also test the tension with the right spring-loaded tool, as I had that for my Porsche 928).

The visual inspection will show if your belt is frayed, cracked, or throwing large amount of "rubber" residue all over the cam covers (signs of a disintegrating belt).

Of course, a belt might not have any of the above...it might appear fine only to snap or lose teeth on your very next run...

...but it certainly doesn't hurt to look to see if your belt has already lost a tooth or already has a crack or has run up on the edge of a pulley or is floppy loose to the touch (as in, wildly out of tension).

So the belt inspection can rule out some, but not all, causes of belt failures.

This means that the visual inspection is worthwhile, but not all-knowing.

 

Re-degree the cams? You mean,line them back up to their reference marks? One on each cam gear,and one on the crank gear? Which you would mark again with a white marker pen to make sure when you remove and refit the belt,that nothing has moved. Being a quad cam,there is more of a chance that one of the cams/or all will move a little when you loosen the tensioner,maybe? You are not screwed if it does? Why would you be? Just line it back up. Or lock the cams in the 1st place and you will be fine every time!

 

And that is right,they are there for belt inspection. You can at least get a peek at the belt to see the condition,as was mentioned earlier by me!

 

You can not check your belt tension on a 348 by removing the top covers of the timing belt covers. The only way to check it would be to remove the main portion of the cover and it can not be removed with the engine in the car I have tried that and there is no way. You might be able to remove the belt covers using the gas tank removal method(and check the tension then) but I dont see how they are changing the belt with this method. The pulley that is attached to the crank can not be removed to get the belt off because it is too close the cross member that is between the pulley and the fuel tank. I inspected my belt all the time by removing the top covers but looking at the belt in this way doesn't tell you much because you can't see the teeth very well. As someone said above you really can not always detect a bad belt just by a visual inspection. It gave piece of mind I guess. Regards, Vern

 

I think I may have stumble across how they remove the pully.

When I was removing my transmission I couldn't get it to come loose from the back of the engine block. As I lowered the floor jack in an attempt to get the transmission to come loose the whole engine tilted. So what I'm guessing they do is, remove the subframe cross beam from the rear, and then pull out the main retaining bolt, that attaches to the top of the subframe, and let the engine tilt from the weight of the trany.

Now I stopped trying this when the engine started to tilt. I hadn't removed the clutch shaft. Anyway, it would seem that you could tilt the engine enough this way to be able to remove the pully. But I don't think that it would be very good for the motor mounts.

So that is my best guess of how they get that pully off with the engine in-stu.

 

You could be right about that but it seems to me that would be quite a bit of tilt to clear that pulley and as you said probably hard on the motor mounts. You would still have to remove coolant hoses and fluid and a few other things to do that tilt thing. It has never been a big deal to me to drop the engine cradle because of all the other maintanence that needs to be done. Regards, Vern

 

The maintenance and lubrication chart in the Technical Manual for my 1990 348 says that the camshaft drive belt should have an "inspection and adjustment" done at 1,500 miles, then an inspection done every 15,000 miles, and replacement at 52,500 miles. The workshop manual says the cam belt can be retensioned ONCE.

So - if you took your 348 in for an initial 1,500 mile service, did they pull the engine? I don't think so. Did they pull the engine every 15,000 miles to inspect the belt? I don't think so. So how did they inspect and adjust the belt? My guess: they didn't. You certainly can't do a proper inspection, or an adjustment of any kind, by removing the top covers.

Are you supposed to pull the engine 1,500 miles after installing a new belt so that you can inspect and adjust it?