Vignale spyder #504 restoration | FerrariChat

Vignale spyder #504 restoration

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by thecarnut, Jul 13, 2009.

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  1. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    #1 thecarnut, Jul 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    After two years of ownership, I finally decided it is time to restore 3500GT Vignale spyder #504. Although I have restored several Maserati, this car poses some interesting challenges as the car is a prototype. I am finding things that I have never seen on a Maserati before. My goal is to only fix what absolutely needs to be fixed, but at the same time return the car to its former glory. I am hoping with this thread to get advice on what to redo and what to leave alone.

    These photos show the car the day I went to pick it up in Ventura, California. The car had been stored for nearly 30 years in the wooden enclosure of the garage you see in one of the photos. The car was sold new to a gentleman in Los Angeles and, although changed hands several times, it never left the Los Angeles area. Luckily, California weather is great on older cars and the body is in amazingly good condition, with just a small amount of rust on the front portion of both rocker panels. The best part is this car is virtually untouched!

    Ivan
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  2. thecarnut

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    #2 thecarnut, Jul 13, 2009
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  3. alberto

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    Very cool car. Love the seats. It'll be fun to track progress.What to keep original and what to refresh is always a BIG challenge.
     
  4. italiafan

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    VERY VERY Cool!
    Please keep posting pix!
     
  5. Ferraripilot

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    WOW. that front end treatment is fabulous. very interesting car. I love it
     
  6. thecarnut

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    #6 thecarnut, Jul 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    One of the most unique design features is a hump on the hood which visually connects, through the windshield, to the instrument pod. After this car, three additional Vignale prototypes were built which have similar design features, but this is the only one with the hood hump. Personally, I think it looks cool and they should have kept it through the production of all Vignale spyders. It did create some serious challenges to the design and fitting of the windshield (more on that later) and probably the reason it was dropped.

    Ivan
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  7. carguyjohn350

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  8. Miltonian

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    I want to read all about this car and see lots of pictures! Great story.
     
  9. italiafan

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    I'd say you have a very valuable car on your hands there.
    Keep pix coming please!
     
  10. gcmerak

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    Looking good Ivan. If anyone can execute a restoration on that beauty, you can. Call is you need an extra set of hands.

    Ciao,
    George
     
  11. thecarnut

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    #11 thecarnut, Jul 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The windshield glass is a bit unique and one of the areas I will need help. The glass is held on three of the sides with what appears to be a normal windshield gasket. The bottom portion of the glass rests on four metal brackets. The actual seal happens between the glass and the top of the dash. What I can't figure out is how they got the glass installed. You can barely put a .3mm feeler gauge between the fender and the glass! Of course, with a piece of glass that is now 50 years old, and one that is very unique, it is not something I like experimenting.

    To make matters worst, the dash is welded on place and will not come out! One of the first things I do when restoring a car is to remove the dash. I looked for the mounting nuts on this car and found that the dash is an integral part of the body. Where the white paint of the car's body meets the black paint on the dash is actually just a paint line ... it is all one massive structural piece. Okay ... this is making dealing with that piece of glass that much more difficult. For now I will not do not do anything ... just think of alternatives.

    Ivan
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  12. thecarnut

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    #12 thecarnut, Jul 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The convertible top mechanism is a bit strange. It reminds me of the top mechanism on an Alfa Romeo Giulietta spider. The top mechanism is spring loaded and the top hides in a compartment behind the seats. What looks like a leather cover for the top is actually a piece of leather over a metal frame which is bolted to the rear deck. In other words, it is an optical illusion since it plays no practical purpose. I suspect the rear end of the car would have looked too long without it.

    Ivan
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  13. thecarnut

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    #13 thecarnut, Jul 16, 2009
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    The engine compartment has the familiar 3500GT layout. Mostly everything is original with the exception of the radiator cap and some contraption in the front of the engine where the thermostat used to go. Luckily both are easy to correct. The oil filter is mounted remotely on the right front of the engine compartment. This makes changing the oil much easier.

    The bad news is the engine is frozen. I have tried Mystery Oil down and PB Blaster down the cylinders with no luck. The oil looks dirty but not contaminated with water. The radiator level was low but the fluid was nice and bright green. Only solution was to take out the engine and see what is going on.

    Ivan
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  14. thecarnut

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    #14 thecarnut, Jul 16, 2009
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  15. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Ivan,
    I strongly assume that the restoration of #504 will keep you entertained over the winter months to come.
    But why is the engine frozen? In one of your previous posts you mentioned the sunny, warm climate of CA! ::))

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  16. thecarnut

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    Walter,

    It is already keeping me busy! The frozen engine is a big mystery. The water pump spins freely and so does the generator. This car was stored in a nice dry environment. My guess is a head gasket failure that has permitted coolant to leak into the cylinders and the piston rings rusted against the cylinder walls. Before the engine is taken apart, the mechanic first had to build a special engine stand and is now is fabricating a tool to help extract the head. Hopefully in a week or two I will know what went wrong.

    Ivan
     
  17. thecarnut

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    #17 thecarnut, Jul 20, 2009
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  18. thecarnut

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    #18 thecarnut, Jul 20, 2009
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    Now that the engine is out it is time to focus on getting the chrome redone. As I removed the interior and the door panels I kept finding an orange dust from what use to be foam that was glued on the inside of the doors and floors. This foam was used as sound deadening material. On the floors the foam was then covered with a piece of vinyl. Of the inside of the doors it was simply glued on. Foam is essentially a sponge waiting for moister. Foam and moister is the perfect combination to rust whatever metal is under it. It is rather amazing this car has survived 50 years without rusting away!

    If you look closely at the bottom of the window glass you will notice the glass was cut so that the power window motor would clear when the glass is in the down position.

    Ivan
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  19. thecarnut

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    #19 thecarnut, Jul 20, 2009
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    As most people that have restored a Maserati GT car know, coachbuilders would either stamp or write a control number on loose parts so that they could identify to which car the part would go. On the earlier cars, such as a 3500GT, a unique body number was used. On later cars, such as the Ghibli, the last two or three digits of the VIN were used. When my car was being finished, Vignale must have started building the two prototypes that were used to announce the new model at the Touring show of 1959 (cars #505 and 623), therefore identification numbers were most likely used to keep the parts with the proper cars. I was very curious as to which number was used on my car.

    Taking the door panel off I realized I was most likely the first person taking it apart after the car was built as I found what appeared to be the original plastic cover behind the door panel. The same silver plastic material was used on the back of the door panel. On the back of the door panel I found handwritten ... "Maserati N1". About half of the chrome trims had no markings while the other half were stamped with "M1" ... I am guessing it means "Maserati number 1". One painted trim was simply labeled "Maserati bianca" or white Maserati.

    Usually there is a tag with the body number somewhere in the chassis but I have yet to find one on this car.

    Ivan
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  20. thecarnut

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    #20 thecarnut, Jul 20, 2009
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    Most of the trim came out without much trouble. A few nut were in places very difficult to reach but that is somewhat to be expected. What I did not expect was in order to remove the two front rocker panel trims the only way to get to two of the nuts was to remove the doors. The doors have zero adjustment as both the door and body hinges are welded in place. Fortunately the door gaps are all perfect.

    The chrome work will be done by Graves Plating in Florence, Alabama. They have been around for many years and do nice quality work. Another important consideration is they are within driving distance from my house as I do not want to be shipping these pieces. There are close to 200 individual pieces that will need to be chromed or polished!

    The wire wheels were just shipped to be rebuilt. I am using Cork Adams at Precision Wire Wheel. These will be done using chrome spokes, as per original. I usually use stainless spokes but I wanted the extra bling that only chrome spokes can deliver.

    Nest step: Do the brakes and suspension. Tomorrow I leave on a 2 week vacation and that will have to wait until August when I return.

    Ivan
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  21. ColdWater

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    Terrific thread Ivan, already one of the best. Enjoy your vacation, anxious to see more when you return.

    Don
     
  22. SpyderGT

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    Moderator: can a Maserati thread be selected "thread of the year" on a Ferrari forum? If so, I nominate this thread for "thread of the year" and it's only just beginning!
    This will be fascinating.
    Jon
     
  23. thecarnut

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    #23 thecarnut, Jul 20, 2009
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    This is a series of letters between the original owner and the factory which provide and interesting perspective as to how Maserati operated in the 1950s and 1960s. It shows the car being sold and commissioned in July 14 of 1959 and on a ship (President Jackson) to the USA in November. Clearly this amount of time is not enough to fully design and build a one-off car, therefore I suspect the car was already designed and the construction well under way by the time the "order to fabricate" was issued. Mr. Lubin was most likley shown the car while it was being built and given the opportunity to purchase it when completed. This would have permitted Maserati and Vignale to continue to develop the car but with a real buyer already paying for some of the cost. Worst case is the car never goes into production but at least this one was sold. This would have been important for a small cash hungry company like Maserati.

    My sincere appreciation to Ermanno Cozza for going through the factory files and providing this documentation, and to Marc Sonnery for all his help with Signore Cozza.

    Ivan
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  24. thecarnut

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    #24 thecarnut, Jul 20, 2009
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  25. Nembo1777

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    Ahah I had been wondering if you were going to post these: great.

    Keep up the good work Ivan!

    best regards,

    Marc
     

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