Vignale spyder #504 restoration | Page 16 | FerrariChat

Vignale spyder #504 restoration

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by thecarnut, Jul 13, 2009.

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  1. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
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    #376 mfletch, Sep 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    The original owner of this car was Joe Lubin from Los Angeles, CA. Joe owned TAP Equipment which provided aftermarket parts for Caterpillar trucks.

    Joe also was was an avid racer and owned a Birdcage, amongst other cars. Joe passed away in November 2003 and I am trying to located a close family member that might be able to provide old photos. I was told he had two sons ... Joe Jr. and Dave.

    Can anyone provide information as to their whereabouts?

    Ivan
     
  3. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    #378 thecarnut, Sep 21, 2011
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  4. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2008
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    Ivan, as always, it looks fantastic. Your attention to details has really paid off. Great job! As I try to fix some little details in the engine compartment that I am not happy with, I will be using your's as an example of what everything should look like. Thanks for posting.
     
  5. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Mark for your nice comments. Here is a tip ...

    Modern belts and hoses have markings usually in white or yellow with the part number, manufacturers name, place of manufacture, etc. A belt that reads "Gates 2032 - Made in Mexico" sure does not look original, yet I see these in many restored cars. To solve this problem you can use lacquer thinner to remove some of the markings. For markings that do not want to be erased, just use black vinyl dye (I use the same dye I use for leather) and make the markings disappear.

    Ivan
     
  6. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

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    Great tip. I hate the look of modern stickers on belts on vintage cars.
     
  7. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

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    Thanks for the tip Ivan.
     
  8. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    #383 thecarnut, Sep 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I am concerned with the amount of time it will take the engine to build up oil pressure when I first start it. Especially considering the large size of the oil hoses to the remote oil filter and the fact that this engine dose not have a scavenger pump.

    Before hooking up the big oil hoses I took a funnel and filled the oil filter canister with oil.

    One trick I learned from Kyle Fleming was to pre-oil an engine that has been sitting for a long time, or like this one, just rebuilt. This is done by removing the external oil line that runs from the block to the head on the left side of the engine. Hook up a rubber hose to an extra banjo fitting and connect this to the block. Place a funnel high above the head and slowly put oil. Gravity will do the rest. If the valve covers are removed you will eventually see oil coming out of cam bearings indicating that the oil lines are full. For this engine I did not want to mess up the new cam cover gaskets therefore I did not remove the cam covers and put around 3 liters of oil, which should be plenty.

    Next step will be to remove the spark plugs and spin the engine without any load. Hopefully I will see the oil gauge register pressure.

    Ivan
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  9. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #384 staatsof, Sep 25, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
    I've used the pressurized pot from a spray gun (twin hose style gun) and used simple air pressure to get the oil in there. It's pretty quick and very thorough. Most engines have an appropriate gallery plug somewhere. The old V8 has more than one.

    It looks too clean and pretty to even start up Ivan. It always pains me a bit to spoil that never again perfect look. Well until I enjoy driving it again ... :)


     
  10. thecarnut

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    #385 thecarnut, Sep 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    After the pre-oil was completed the next step was to spin the engine without load (spark plugs removed) until oil pressure was measured at the gauge. I am happy to report that after several spins the pressure went up to about 45 psi just spinning with the starter. I was also able to test that the spark on both of the ignition circuits is working. With that test out of the way the next step was to install the radiator, cooling hoses, thermostat, heater valve and shut off valves.

    Question: Table 8, #63 shows a shut off valve for the coolant that flows through the intake manifold. It is the same type of valve that is used to shut off coolant going to the heater. In which situations would I want the intake manifold valve open versus having it closed?

    Ivan
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  11. BartvanderWeiden

    BartvanderWeiden Formula Junior

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    Hi Ivan,

    The valve is intended for pre-heating of the inlet manifold at low, around freezing, temperatures. I bet you are not going to drive your beauty in those conditions.
    Important is to use a non corrosive cooling liquid because the aluminum of the different thin wall castings can corrode in a nasty manner!

    Your car looks very, very good!

    Ciao,

    Bart
     
  12. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Confused ... what happens at the other end of the manifold for this possible water flow?

    Pete
     
  13. BartvanderWeiden

    BartvanderWeiden Formula Junior

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    Hi Pete,

    The other end is connected to the cooling system as well so by opening the valve one creates a kind of bypass.

    Regards,

    Bart
     
  14. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Bart,

    By opening the valve, hot liquid is permitted to flow through the intake manifold. If you do not want heat then you close the valve. It works the same way as the heater.

    Other cars (ex: Jaguar e-type) have intake manifolds that are heated with the engine coolant, and no shut off mechanism is provided. Therefore is it possible that pre-heating is desirable even if it is not freezing?

    Ivan
     
  15. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    #390 thecarnut, Sep 27, 2011
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  16. BartvanderWeiden

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    #391 BartvanderWeiden, Sep 27, 2011
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    Hi Ivan ,

    Probably my English is not that good but by opening the valve one indeed lets the coolant flow through the manifold in a circuit parallel to the rest of the system.
    During 25 years of experience with our Vignale Spider I preferred to have the valve closed.
    When opened and running in temperatures above 18 degrees centigrade the engine was not running smoothly. When the engine was really warm we did experience vapor locks every once in a while, specially with the fuels of today.
    When running the engine at higher revs at low temperatures the carbs may freeze, so then it is better to have the valve open.
    I made the remark about the the non corrosive liquid because I have seen openings in the manifold completely clogged because of corrosion.

    Attached a picture from the old box: The boats name was "Ghibli", what a coincidence!
    At least on our way to and from the regattas we had the fastest boat:)

    Regards,

    Bart
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  17. gopp

    gopp Karting

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    Fantastic picture Bart!
     
  18. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    A red Vignale spyder pulling a red Ghibli spyder! Great photo.

    Ivan
     
  19. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Got it ... now I understand. Thanks

    Pete
     
  20. alberto

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    How many accidents did this sight cause on the road back in the day? That would have been quite the sight.
     
  21. thecarnut

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    #396 thecarnut, Oct 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I purchased the Quicksilver exhaust and I am having some problems determining how it installs on the car, especially where it connects to the manifolds. My car has the later style transverse rear muffler.

    According to the parts manual the flexible pipes are very close to the manifolds. If I recall from other cars the flexible pipes were lower closer to the long muffler that runs along the left side of the car. My car does not have a place to hang the long side muffler. None is shown on the later style exhaust although it is shown for the earlier style. It seems this is a lot of weight to not be supported.

    I would appreciate if someone can post photos of their exhaust. I am especially interested in the area between the manifolds and the center muffler, and how the center muffler is supported. While you are at it show me the rear :)

    Ivan
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  22. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

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    #397 mfletch, Oct 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ivan, I will take some pictures of my Quicksilver system today. I can post them this evening. The shop that installed mine, mounted it to the frame at the front and rear of the exhaust tunnel (with my permission). They removed the one mount that the original system was attached to. The original mount beneath the driver's seat floor was inadequate to support the system in my car, as evidenced by it having been re-welded in the past.
    Here are some pictures of the original installation on my car. It was prior to the suspension rebuild. The oil leak was a loose banjo fitting on the side of the engine. We had to do some more modifications on the indented pipe to correct an issue with the tire rubbing against the exhaust pipe at full left turn. Instructions for installation of the system would have been nice. The fit was not the greatest.

    The last four pictures were taken during the suspension rebuild.
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  23. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3

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    #398 Portenos, Oct 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are some photos showing the original flex pipe position and the position of the muffler hanger.
    I choose to use no rear muffler and spent several hundreds of dollars rerouting mandrel bent pipes straight out the back. In that way I was able to get that deep throaty sound I was looking for. ( see/hear video)
    Ciao,
    FGM
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  24. mfletch

    mfletch Formula Junior

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    #399 mfletch, Oct 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

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    Hi Ivan, just checking on your progress...................... (bump)

    ~Trev
     

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