Don`t worry, I`m sure Frank Williams isn`t stupid to sign both JB and JV. You said Button already has JPM`s seat....I think you`re too confident on that statement. Why BAR would let Button go after having their best year. Plus BAR are looking better than Williams so far this season. Last , remember Frank Williams let Button go when he was with Williams in the past so why would he return there. I think Webber is way closer getting JPM`s seat.
Every site I go to , there`s anti-Villeneuve everywhere apart for us canadian people who cheer for him. Williams would waste their time signing JV? Wow, this guy won a driver championship before and now he`s just a waste? If Hakkinen went to BAR after his 2 championship, and say the same scenario happened to him(like JV) , would you say he`s just a waste. Not everyone is capable of winning a championship, but JV did it with MS next to him the hole season. Okay his caracter isn`t the best but he`s still a great guy. When he was with BAR , I think he got discourage and knew he made a big mistake going there. I think the only reason he sign with BAR is because his friend Craig Pollock was in charge. If it wasn`t for that , he would have stayed with Williams and maybe by now he would be still driving for Williams or Renault or McLaren (maybe he would had replace Hakkinen for McLaren so JV can be with his friend David Coulthard). I say give JV a seat for next year at Williams ...and if he`s a big contender for the champoinship...I will laugh at you guys. Now if he goes NOTHING...then bravo to you anti-Villeneuve.
Yeah ... let's bring back Irvine and JV and create the greatest pairing of "could have been" to date. JV may have won a WC, but that doesn't mean he could do it again (many, including myself, believe he was driving a superior car.) Irvine, well, whatever. I never saw any panache in his driving, ever. Button will stay at BAR in '05. They're not going to score less than 6th this year; they're a very serious contender, and when they finally get their testing miles up to par with Ferrari, they'll be a serious contender. I think the BAR line up will stay the same since Button is obviously qualified, provides the Bristish contingency its poster boy and is a mature driver to boot. Sato fulfills the Japanese contingency, and is a good, but developing driver. As far as Williams is concerned, both seats are going to be open. We know from last yeat, that Gene is a competent racing driver (when he stood in for Ralf); however, getting him up to WC contention pace might be too long of an excercise for Frank Williams to wait on. Of the entire grid, I'd like to see Webber and Alonso at Williams. I really, really want to see Webber get a ride that's up to par with his, obvious, talent. The fact that he's a class act is just icing. I really like the guy, not simply because he's honest and forthright, but has enough in the way of tact to speak his mind in a way that doesn't come of *****y, whiny or otherwise smacking of the lame brains that fill the grid today. I'm also in favor of ditching the pay to drive moving chicanes. I would have thought the lesson would have been learned with Yoong , but I guess money walks, and ... Neither JV nor Irvine give a **** about F1. If any of you have read their post-F1 interviews, they don't care to race, and don't care about F1. So, why put them in seats that could foster developing talent (i.e., Webber, Alonso, etc)? About Pizzonia... why the **** would you put him in a race seat? The guy is a serious wreck waiting to happen... oh, wait, he already rolled a Jaguar saloon @ a press event. Nevermind. Finally, Wurz has been itching for a race seat, and I think he and Gene are of equal racing craft. I wouldn't mind seeing them in the competative arena, but not in lieu of Webber getting the ride he deserves.
John, I don't think anyone here is saying JV didn't have talent, even world class talent, but there is a difference between great drivers in F1 (Hakkinen, D.Hill, JV, Rosberg, A.Jones, J. Watson) and those who fall into the category of the "GREATEST" drivers (Prost, Stewart, Senna, Schumacher, Lauda etc..). Some drivers are great only when the car is great others are great in anything. While I don't think Schumacher and Senna would put a Minardi on pole position, they sure as hell would outqualify the Jordans, Toyotas, Jaguars, Saubers and other backmarkers. Two perfect examples of my threory are JV and Eddie Irvine (sorry Andreas). While I think both were great drivers and had decent talent both only looked good when they had a great car. When they had a less than great car they didn't try to make a better car, they just complained. JV was never known for liking testing work (or PR work). BAR was absolutely the worst place he could have gone. Who cares how much money they were willing to spend on the project, it would still need massive development and JV wasn't the one to do this. The car sucked for the first few years and did JV's world class talent improve the car at all. Nope not a chance. Eddie Irvine, who I have always been a fan of, fits the same mold. He nearly won the title for Ferrari when MS was injured. He was one race away from winning it all. But look at what happened when he went to Jaguar. Same as JV the car sucked and in the 3 years he was there the car never got better and all he did was complain more and more. He left most of the development work to DeLarosa and hated doing any testing. Neither Eddie nor JV had the winning attitude to become one of the greatest drivers, simply a decent or great driver, same as Hill. Another was Piquet who I think doesn't fit into either camp. He won too many titles to be called simply a great driver but at the same time he had some terrible years at Lotus and other mid-field teams and complained a lot about the cars he drove. He also wasn't in the prime of his career and stayed a bit too long so possibly had he retired earlier he would make my list with Prost, Senna, Stewart and Schu. None of us arm chair racers are suggesting (or at least I am not) that these guys don't have talent. Heck even poor saps like Mezzecane, Alex Yoong, and people like Baumgartner and such have talent. You don't pilot an F1 car around a track and live to tell about it if you don't have some world class tatent. No they don't have F1 world class talent but we are talking about the extreme form of professional autsport. There are thousands of professional drivers that couldn't get here so getting to F1, completing 100 or so laps and still being alive to talk about it is enough to prove they are the best. There are plenty of F1 world champions that are merely decent F1 drivers. Rosberg, Jones, Watson, to name a few. Add to this list the more modern day drivers of Hill and JV. But to suggest he would be the equal of Schumacher or Senna in the same car is dumb. Senna won races in a BAR-like Lotus, and he was competitive in a Minardi-like Toleman. Many people like to talk about Sterling Moss, the greatest driver to never win a title. All we hear about is how great he was and on and on. But the bottom line is that you make your own choices and in the end all that matters is that you won the title. Sterling decided he wanted to drive all those British made rust buckets and as a result he never had a great car. He couldn't help the part of his career he was stuck watching the great Fangio go around him and around him, but he had chances to win the title when Fangio wasn't around and didn't. Back to JV and Eddie. Both entered into similar situations that MS did when he went to Ferrari which at the time hadn't won a title in nearly 20 years and was in disarray. With the help of others he rebuilt everything and turned them into winners. Yes JV did win the title but in a car that was much superior to the Ferrari. When Hakkinen won his titles the McLaren was still the better car. That's what seperates the winners from the whiners! Regards, Jon
I think Jeff Gordon or Scott Dixon would be great for F1 and Willaims. Gordon would deifnatley bring sponsors and American media coverage with him. Heck, why we are speculating, lets bring back Tiff Needel as well!!
The thing I noticed about Irvine was that when Shumacher was driving, the car was getting better all the time. After shumacher's accident, the car was seriously fast, and Irvine looked OK for a while, but the car stopped getting any faster and the other teams blew on by. The car stopped developing (more speed). The only logical rational is that Shumacher was pulling the team forward and when he was not available for feedback, the pace of development stalled. Irvine did not have 'that' ability to pull the car forward.
jon, hubert, john, you all make some good points, and many that i agree with. however, one thing we are all guilty of in this thread is wishing our own preferences on williams' driver choice for next year, vs objectively looking at what will actually be possible. yes it would be great to have button and webber in those seats. but that just isn't going to happen; button is tied in, and only a big check will pry him out. webber is tied into briatore, who is about to toss trulli and will want to keep webber and alonso together in his own team - unless another big check is cut. i don't think either check is going to come out of frank's wallet very easily. if he is going to go the route of paying large, then he should just keep ralf, for all sorts of reasons. so if we base our arguments on the fact that frank has balked at paying more than about $5 mil for ralf, then we have to look at what is possible and optimum for a smaller fee. so who does this leave: fisichella, wurz, coulthard, davidson, dixon, gene, trulli, heidfeld, pizzonia, jv, hakkinen, irvine, gordon.....maybe a few others. of these i think the best bets for williams would be: fisi, wurz, dc, gene, jv, mh. my own preference from this group would be jv and dc (and given their potential alternatives may come very cheaply). i don't think fisi, or mh have the right kind of character for the blue team; gene is just as easily kept as 3rd man, and wurz might not escape macca since ron hates to lose anybody to frank. the others (davidson, dixon, trulli, heidfeld, pizzonia, irvine, gordon) don't necessarily satisfy frank's objectives of attracting sponsorship money or actually being in contention from day 1 to compete at the top.
So Webber is in Briatories pocket as well? I thought it was only Alonso and Button that he managed. Damn! That guy is turning out to be the next Bernie E. and Willi W. combined.
"Pollock insists Jacques will be back in F1 in 2005" http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=20744
Well say what you want about JV, the fact that we have these heated discussions goes to show that the guy has made some kind of impact. If nothing else with JV back, press conferences could become interesting again. Imagine MS, JPM and JV sitting there, the last two *****ing and moaning about why MS beat them. Hilarious. PS: I'm not offended by the statements regarding Irvine. I love the guy for who he is. At least he has personality. Look at today's press conferences and I can answer all those questions for the drivers without much difference (except JPM).
Eloquently put!!!! I could not have said it better myself. From my angle, the only thing that really grated my nerves was the amount of coverage JV was getting from the local french press.
FRENTZEN!!!! Why has no one mentioned Heinz? He was doing such a great job when he was with Jordan. I think it was a big mistake for Eddie to cut him loose, not to mention shocking. Since he left, Jordan hasn't won a race. When Frentzen was driving, at least he put them on the podium a few times, and even won a couple. If I were Frank I would find his number and give him a call.
Uhh...........neither has Frentzen. Frentzen is way past his "sell by date". He may have been quicker than MS in the lower formula but he didn't do much in F1. Yes he had some good podiums finishes with Jordan, but that was one year, and he sure didn't take the fight to JV while at Williams. Other than Mansell, FW (correct me if I am wrong) has never resigned a driver he let go, and other than Mansell, no driver has ever wanted to re sign with FW after they had left. Frentzen had the team and the car (Williams) and couldn't get the job done. In F1 you get one good chance and that's usually it. Regards, Jon
aren't there any new pilots out there? i suppose they think some one who has driven before is a better risk than a fresh face. isn't there a minor league or a similar pool to draw from. i thought formula 3 and toyota atlantic was to supply new talent. with the resources available to them you'd think they would be able to have an in house farm system.
Coverage, yes. But sponsors? Dupont? Remember: the steering wheel on an F1 car costs more than a whole NASCAR machine. I don't think Dupont does enough business in Europe to warrant raising the bar (no pun intended) that much. Much as I'd like to see "Flash" Gordon in F1, Jeff would be relatively more expensive than other drivers, because he doesn't have the F3K pipeline to the "personal sponsors" that go with Euro circuit drivers. Unless Frank can get some input from Bernie, to get better US coverage, I don't think Jeff is a serious option for a "budget" seat. (And Bernie may already be invested in that Red Bull circus.) I don't think Fisi would take a seat with Williams, unless he's worried about the rumors of Ferrari dropping F1 after 2006. Yes, and that's where Minardi, Jordan, and Jag get new drivers. The leading teams more often opt for drivers that have proven themselves in the slower cars or in testing. Of course, I could be way off on any of this -- after all, look how far off I was about how well McLaren would be in a car they spent a year and a half developing.
Okay I can buy that. But then why would Frank even consider JV. After all he did leave after he "won" the championship when he first came to F1.
Niki Lauda thinks, there is even a good chance that Ralf won't finish his season with Ralf. JV up for an early return?
Andreas, Don't forget.........Niki Lauda also said that monkeys could drive the todays F1 cars (then he proceeded to spin the Jaguar three times on his first warm up lap). Regards, Jon
Absolutely true. That's the good part about Lauda, always good for a bon mot. However I do get the feeling Frank is getting tired of his overpaid cry baby driver and German Toyota would be happy to have him sooner than later to develop next year's car. And who wants to see Gene in a Williams? I dont.
