Vin change

Did you ever determine why the "new" VIN plate was attached? Can you post photos?

 

Calling Carbon !!!!!!

 

Sounds like a "factory rebuilt" car.

Lamborghini rebuilt and reissued a few Miuras under different numbers during their run. It's possible that Ferrari did something similar.

Not sure about it. Perhaps Carbon McCoy can shed some light on it or possibly Marcel Massini.

 

Maybe...5 digits VINs can hide a LOT of sin, my man!!!

I have NEVER heard of Ferrari themselves "doing it" where the original VIN was still visible.
That would rather be "beside the point"??

Whatever "the point" at the time, was...???

 

Welcome Ellis,

Sorry for the short answer, but re-reading your post, let me first say that your SECOND VIN number is WAY too early to be used in a "1978 Ferrari"

To give you some comparisons, the F106AB*18783* would fall into the production range for 1975, at the latest, IMO. VIN #19271 is a 1976 512BB.

I had 308GTB #20405, and it was a LATE 1976 production date!
And one of the earliest steel cars in North America.

So, following my logic, that makes both of your VINs in that earlier period.
Let's see some ID plates, the door jamb???

The frame welded section by the engine, where the VIN is stamped??
Is this a Euro car?

Many time an importer will list the "date" it was brought into the States, as a production date.
Often they screwed these Importer plates on, as you describe..
But that never changes the original VIN.
The only time Ferrari did that was to "hide" the new car, from taxation.
that was back during FOUR digits VINs and usually for a wealthy and notable customer.
Not a 308GTB.

 

Alan, I should have guessed you'd have some knowledge about old 308s. I'm not sure what numbers the fiberglass cars fall under. I spend my time keeping them on the road.




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Wow ...
I have heard of 3 different cars with the same "vin" ..... all the original of course
But never 1 car with 2 vins, and both on the car at the same time ?

Just the title of "vin change" will attract those with knowledge FAST.
Wait for it .......
Thinking Carbons pager is going off right now

 

The "North American 'glass cars" are all very well documented.
Our member and former owner "308GTB" had the links, of the 200 cars, made in batches of 20, sequential VINs (odd numbers only "street Ferraris")..

That's why I was curious if EITHER number was there, otherwise we have a world market car. Anything could have happened..
Not ruling out someone of a high ranking factory status, wrecking it, or whatever, and getting a new VIN.

Still not sure why you would EVER want the two VINs combined on a car?

 

Carbon tracks modern VINs.

The work of Gerald Roush went to Marcel Massini.

So the early 308s were at the end of the "old VIN" system.
Not as searchable in modern data bases, unless someone like Gerald (in the United States) or Marcel (in Europe) took the effort.

Carbon DID work for The Ferrari Market Letter, for a time.

 

Why not contact Ferrari directly and ask them?

 

I would just like to see these "ID plates"...that would answer a lot.

OP seems to be missing from the conversation!

 

I have seen a 308 that had two sn/vins (can't remember which) ...the numbers were identical except for the first digit was different on one plate (4xxxx instead of 5xxxx or so)... the problem is I think some paperwork was done at some time with one number or the other.....w/assembly number and context, I think one # is considered to be in error. There might even be a thread here on it.. Definitely add whatever you find out.

 

I only see one serial number. Where does it say F106ab20511?

 

I'm so glad you posted this! - I thought I must be missing something as I could only see one VIN number on the chassis that matched the VIN on the steering column plate.

 

I think that the VIN to be considered to identify this car is always F106AB18783 (as stamped in the chassis).

I think that a "new" chassis, already numbered as #20511, has been used to rebuild the old car #18783 after some accident and most probably at Ferrari plant.

So there shouldn't exist a Ferrari with c/n #20511.

The reason for the second plate (attached with screws and seals) is probably for administrative request in order to maintain the registration number linked to old chassis and to "discard" the new chassis.

 

That's an odd thing.
I think the oddest part of that is the "Original Frame Number" seems to be a newer serial number than the car's other frame numbers. Some newer car gave it's parts to rebuild this one at some time maybe? I wonder which chassis serial number Ferrari thinks your engine and transmission came from.
It's an interesting thing to have on your car!

 

So, does Carfax list this as a "numbers matching" car?

 

So this is fun - Mike, thank you for the heads up on this thread...

Some points of interest concerning this (these) car (cars): First, neither of them comes close to being a '78 (18783 is a '75, and 20511 is a '76); so how it came to be titled as a '78 is a mystery (actually, not that much of a mystery, seems to be somewhat common with pre-1980 Ferraris in America). Second, 18783 started life as a fiberglass 308, and, as far as I know, 20511 is/was a steel car. Can one of our more garage-familiar members look at the rotisseried body that Ellis posted, and discern if it's a 'glass body? I only know one trick to telling 'glass from steel 308s, and I can't tell from the angle and condition of the car presented in the photo.

TheDevil might be right - it's possible that the remains of one car were used to make whole the remains of another car. Also, this car has been renumbered for almost as long as I've been alive.

Ellis, can you go into detail on this car? When you acquired it (assuming you're the current owner), from whom/where you acquired it, the mileage at the time of the acquisition, the current mileage, any accompanying records that might indicate where the car has been, etc.?

Lastly, even if this car was never renumbered, it still wouldn't be a "matching-numbers" example - Ferrari stopped doing matching numbers with the introduction of the Queen Mother.

 

Wow...thanks for the pictures...

I would go with the steering column ID plate.
Those frame stampings look original to my eyes...

That lead seal stuff and "Original ID" is past my experience.....sorry.
I would think the Factory would be the only one to prove or deny what happened there!!

 

Original color is the blue in the windshield surround?

That would be a wonderful color on the car!

Carbon's comment about the engine and transmission ID numbers is correct, they no longer matched the frame ID by the early 308s.

 

If I may say, 18783 is an Euro car. It is a very chassis early in the production made before Ferrari start to produce the US model.
20511 could be also an Euro fiberglass even if in US, steel car was already built at the factory.
This number is "in" a RHD batch on my record but that could be an LHD, there are some more later for Euro fiberglass. This is a late 1976 number that could have been deliver in 1977 ( this is the case for some cars with closed number around).

Ekkis, do you have any Assembly number to share ? on the body or on the panel if the car is under restoration ?
What is your engine number ?