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Vintage Bulb Holders

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by enio45, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
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    Are the rubber bulb holders a required item for judging points?

    Say for 330 GT cars or early 250 cars?

    Appreciate the input.....
     
  2. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie

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    not aware of any bulb holders for those early cars.
     
  3. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Some 275 and 330 cars definitely had the black rubber bulb holders. I believe it was NOT consistent.
     
  4. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
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    when we had the 330 GTC judged at cavallino this past jan, we did NOT have one and it passed inspection without any deductions. Obviously the tool kit was correct otherwise.
     
  5. TTR

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    If I'm not mistaken, any and every item included in the car as it left the factory is or should be required for judging, but whether or not the judges on a given day or event know about or take a notice of all details...
    For example, I've seen many "Platinum- level" vintage Ferraris, which IMO shouldn't have qualified for "Gold" or some not even "Silver".
    Also, having attended (regional) FCA judging seminars for several years now and volunteered as a judge for longer, I've noticed recently introduced higher score requirements to be a moot point since the guidelines for deductions seem to have been simultaneously relaxed to off-set them.

    BTW, what is a "rubber bulb holder" ?
    Or do you mean a rubber boot to cover/protect the metal or plastic bulb fixture, similar to boots found on various other electrical connections points ?
     
  6. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
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  7. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    The link you provided seem to show dozens of light fixtures that I suspect have very little to do with early Ferraris.
    As I said, my understanding is that if it came with it, it should be there, but whether or not judges notice its presence or lack there of is what it all boils down to.
    Just remember that an average post war car (including most Ferraris) is made of over 100000 pieces. How many of those you think a panel of three judges are failing to take notice of in the time span of about 15-20 minutes ?
     
  8. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Timo: The early bulb holders are made of black rubber as opposed to the plastic ( in various colors) that came with Daytona's,etc.

    Ed: If you think "judging" determines what is correct, you are very mistaken. All judging tells you is if the judges thought it was correct. The two can be very far apart.
     
  9. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
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    okkkkkkk, i was not trying to open a debate, just trying to get some thoughts and clarification - like we all know a tool kit is absolutely required, so000 the bulb holder - either it is or it isn't for the 250/330 cars or it is subjective.....for instance anyone with a 250 car or 330 car get dinged by the judging standards or opinion for not having one of these??

    I know that opinions of judging vary by judge and can be missed by one and not another...just trying to get a perspective if my client NEEDS to have this particular item.

    I appreciate the input and knowledge that you all have......
     
  10. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Ed: Thanks for your reply. If you noticed, in my first post, I stated the Bulb Holders were NOT consistently included with the toolkit. I have seen dozens (maybe hundreds) of original toolkits over the years, and MOST did not have Bulb Holders, but SOME did. As you get nearer to late 330/365 cars, the Bulb Holders become much more common and are listed in the 365 GT 2+2 Parts Catalog.

    As for the Concours Judging, I walked away from that over 20 years ago in total frustration. Things have not got much better since. For instance, at Pebble this year a 275 GTB was marked down on numerous items that the owner easily was able to PROVE were correct. However, the judges, at the time, neither asked questions, nor were interested in his information. The more things change, the more they remain the same.
     
  11. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Well, I think you or your client are only ones who can answer that question, but if a different "perspective" is required, here's another I can offer:
    Does your client NEED the potentially higher point score this particular item or any other, if not missing, may or may not help to achieve ?
     
  12. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    #12 TTR, Apr 7, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
    I've been seriously considering walking away from judging for similar reasons, but mainly due to frustration caused by ever growing inconsistency. Even the recent IAC/PFA scoring upgrades, which initially appeared a step to right direction, now seem to be moot effort due to more relaxed overall deduction guidelines.
     
  13. 330BRC

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    #13 330BRC, Apr 16, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    For reference, here is the bulb & fuse holder that came in the factory tool kit for 330GTC #10495. The car and the kit are still together.
    For some reason, I can only get 1 photo per reply, so stand by for two more responses with photos. Sorry about that.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. 330BRC

    330BRC Karting

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    #14 330BRC, Apr 16, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. 330BRC

    330BRC Karting

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    #15 330BRC, Apr 16, 2017
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    It is marked "Made in Italy/GEV/Torino/ART 361" on the bottom and made of a stiff but pliable solid black rubber.
    I hope this helps.
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  16. Wheels1

    Wheels1 Formula 3

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    I see, he was talking about a Spare bulb container!
    It got me very confused.
     
  17. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
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    Not really related, but since we have some judges here: The foam that hold the bulbs in my OEM bulb holder for my newer, 80's vintage Ferrari has deteriorated into gray powder. What should I replace the foam with, if anything, for judging purposes?
    Alden
     
  18. todaxyz

    todaxyz Karting

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    This is identical to the one I have for my 330 GTC #10489. I have a spare one too that I'm willing to part with. PM me if interested.

    Tom
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Gray foam. The foam is not a big deal. It was usually only in the fuse holders that were designed for the early European fuses and delivered with ATO fuses so there would be a way to stick them in place. What is important is the bulbs and fuses are there.
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Those were at one time judged for. It may well have changed. There has been a lot of research in the area of jack and tool kits in recent years and if it was determined as Dyke said they may have been taken off the list. You might check with Clete Gardenhour in Florida. He recently did a judging guide for 330 for the IAC/PFA and distributed it for review etc. It the tool section there is no bulb holder shown. The entire jack and tool kit, manuals and window crank are worth 4 points so a bulb holder is a small part of that.
     
  21. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
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    Thanks for the answer on the foam!

    Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
     
  22. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
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    we went thru judging with the 330 GTC at Cavallino and this item was not one of the items that they looked for nor deducted for - at least at this event. This was the reason for my question in the first place. If it was required for the 330 GTC (early car as an FYI) then we will purchase one - but at this time, it does not seem to be required for that class - so far!!

    Thank you for the responses....as an FYI, i see prices all over the place on these - exact same ones priced from 599 - 1500!!
     
  23. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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    Can someone please tell me which Ferraris had the black rubber bulb holders as pictured above in posts 13,14 & 15 ?

    Mark
     
  24. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Mark: I have seen them with SOME original 275 and 330 tool kits, but not all. Maybe 5-10% of the kits.
     
  25. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie

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    275 four cam
    330 gtc
    365 gtc/gts
    365 gt 2+2
     

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