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Vintage Ferrari Interior Picture Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Rossocorsa1, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    Fantastic. Thank you.
     
  2. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I have no idea Etienne, but the thing is I like it for simple reason of work well done. I like the two tons leather it s much harder to do and frankly, the finish gives a pretty result.
    Je ne sais pas si t as tout compris?
    Au plaisir de pouvoir discuter avec toi.
    Je te souhaite une belle année 2019.
     
  3. etienne

    etienne F1 Veteran
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    Yes, and totalement d'accord avec toi :)
    PM sent...
     
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  4. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
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  5. etienne

    etienne F1 Veteran
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    new serie..

    0346M - 1953, the lovely 166MM berlinetta, during the 2006 Concorso Eleganza Villa d'Este
    0349EU - 250 Europa PF 1954
    0419GT - 250 Europa GT 1955
    0594CM - 410S berlinetta Scaglietti 1955
    0596CM - 410S spider Scaglietti 1956
    0813GT - 250 cab PF 1958
    1075GT - 250 cab PF 1958



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  6. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    Great stuff
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Thanks for the great pictures.

    Hand built cars from the 30's through the early 60's have always represented to me the era when we had very skilled craftsmen with good enough tools to create wonderful things by hand. The progression since has been to gradually replace the skill sets with machines. Thankfully there are still enough really skilled to preserve them.
     
  8. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Last year #0349 was for sale, the car was based in europe, I don t know today if it sold .

    The nice spider serie I, call it:
    honey moon express!
     
  9. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Except that “progression” had already started long before automobiles were becoming part of everyday life and “skilled craftsmen” creating “wonderful things by hand” for coach works were around even longer before that.

    OTOH, I don’t quite understand todays standards(?) of fanatically detailed coach work or interior and “restoration” efforts afforded to achieve them in vintage race/racing cars.
    Most, I suspect, were probably nowhere near that highly detailed when originally built & campaigned.

    Right or wrong, but I tend to think they were merely (disposable ?) tools with very limited life (i.e. practical usefulness) expectancies and I seriously doubt those originally constructing them spend much effort or thoughts on how close to ripple-free the block sanding will make the body or that they color sanded the paint to mirror-like finish & luster before sending it to the track or whether the gauges, switches or pleats on those racing seat covers were aligned perfectly straight and parallel to each other.

    I wonder if any vintage racing Ferraris have received “Over restoration deductions/penalties” as per IAC/PFA judging guidelines/rules.
     
  10. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    What does "over restoration" mean anyway? Dos anyone who restores a car really tell the restorer to do "kind of a lousy job"? Of course not. I'm sure you're absolutely correct. There's no question that the original craftsman of these great cars weren't terribly concerned with cosmetic perfection. I for one am very grateful that owners go through the tremendous time and expense to restore these amazing machines. And, yes, they are works of art. If I had a great vintage Ferrari and was going to hand it over to the likes of Bob Smith, Paul Russell David Carte (and others), I would absolutely demand perfection, or I suppose "over restoration".
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Great craftsmanship has existed in many areas for much longer, no question but in the area of the industrial arts the late 20's or the early 30s was where the tools began to be available to create this sort of thing. Going back to the early 20's or teens you suddenly go back to near Victorian products, not far advanced from horse and buggy.

    You are correct. No one built them with the expectation they would still be here and valued 80 or so years later. Not sure what that matters.
     
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  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Most do. But there is a definition and rules for applying an over restoration penalty. It does get used.
     
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  13. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    That's interesting. I didn't know that. What would constitute over restoration? Is there a a good example? When looking at restored cars at the great concours, everything seems perfect.
     
  14. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Restoring a car is not easy. What's simple is the choice we make.

    We have different type of restoration. Fantasy one, Complete restauration, finally, a complete restoration with the main idea of protection. Preserving and and change some vital organs.
    For the rest it is to maintain the general condition of the vehicle.

    I open the discussion concerning a car which customer decided to opt for a new choice - and curious - call "fresco of the rebirth".
    Finally and after reflection this step did not convince me.
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  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #365 Rifledriver, Jan 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
    If by consensus of the entire team the restoration as a whole is over done there is a penalty. It is not huge but at a high level you could never get it assessed and win.

    It is a little problematic in real life. I was CCJ in the Supercar class at a National event and there was an F40 with the smoothest paint you have ever seen. It was being shown by the owners detailers. I asked if they had done a paint correction on the car. The gave me a big smile and said yes. They were quite proud of it. The other 2 judges have both owned several F40s and were kind of offended by the car and really wanted to give them a deduction. In this case it didn't really meet the criteria for over restoration but I asked "Are we really going to give a deduction because the paint is too good?".It is a judgement call as are they all when it comes to condition. Ferrari made (makes) exclusive, hand built cars. Are all perfect? No but most are pretty nice when new. At some level you have to ask yourself who am I to say THAT car was not that nice the day they turned it out for the first time? As Paul Russell said once "Lets not forget that once in a while Pininfarina did get the door gaps perfect".
     
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  16. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    You will find much discussion and philosophical food for thought in the book The Stewardship of Historically Important Automobiles by Fred Simeone et al.
    It was the same throughline of your question(s) in this post that led Ed Gilbertson and others to found the IAC/PFA- the International Advisory Council for the Preservation of the Ferrari Automobile.
    There are different positions to stake out with respect to this question/these issues. There has been a lot of thought and work put into by Messrs Simeone, Gilbertson and others over the past 30+ years and our hobby is the better for it.
     
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  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I think the most important change has been to value originality and to try and create an appreciation for unrestored cars even if they are a little rough around the edges. Its slow but its coming around. Another board member, Donavan Leyden wrote a good piece on it a while back.
     
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  18. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    It means restoring a car to a greater quality level than original. One easy example to sight is paint. Original paint finishes will have orange peel. Today, over restored is wet sanding and cutting the paint to a mirror flat finish. No factory cars ever came that way.
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #370 Rifledriver, Jan 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
    None ever?

    I have seen Ferrari's as you describe and I have seen them look like they were painted with a roller.

    To suggest that kind of consistency is not describing the company I know.

    The word never has no place in the conversation.
     
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  20. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    I was making a point and you know that. Perhaps I should have said production car. Clearly some customer or perhaps the factory on a select occasion would wet sand and buff their balls out but you know what I meant.
     
  21. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    #372 TTR, Jan 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
    That's exactly what I'm referring to.
    Most Concours attendees, including many owners, restorers or even judges, either don't know nor care to know the difference. Too much ($$$ & huge egos) at stake.
    I seriously doubt most, if any '50s/'60s racing cars, Ferraris included, looked anywhere close to "perfect" when originally constructed and therefor I see commonly favored 100 point "Concours" restorations of them anything but authentic.
    I've been "studying" (& researching) this phenomenon, mostly through production/road cars of various makes/models, for close to 40 years now and have seen very few restorations of, let's say, early '70s & older vintage cars that could be considered "authentic" replication of what a given car (likely) was when leaving its respective manufacturing facility or dealership.

    Above is also one of the reasons why I quit reading glossy vintage car magazines long ago.
    They all seem to cater to this "perfection" (dis)illusion.

    Full disclosure: I've been professionally involved full-time with vintage cars and their restorations for +/- 35 years now (over 40 as an enthusiast/hobbyist) and when not working on (restoring) them, their components or parts, good part of my past-time is spent either driving or tinkering with my own vintage cars, so I believe I can consider myself more than just a (part-time) enthusiast.
     
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  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    No, I am saying you don't. Over the last 30 years I have seen a lot show up with incredible paint. I have also seen a lot show up looking like Ray Charles painted them.
    If you feel you have a larger data base than I just say the word.
     
  23. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    #374 Rossocorsa1, Jan 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
    I’m sure your credentials are very valid. It isn’t that I diasagree with you, but I think your point is more a matter of taste and less about correctness. While I’m certain some restorations are substandard, I highly doubt the truly great restorers who operate at the pinnacle of their trade are blazing through their craft haphazardly. If you’re going to restore a multi million dollar Ferrari why on earth would one choose poor paint quality/application, lazy panel placement and shoddy interior stiching (a few examples)? Because that’s how it was originally made? When I go to Cavallino, Pebble Beach, Amelia Island, etc., the most respected restored cars may look perfect (which I love) but the componants, parts, etc., are as they should be. I see nothing negative about that. On the other hand, if one prefers things to look kind of “eh” that’s their prerogative.
     
  24. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    HA
     

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