Vintage racing destroying Ferraris???

Likelihood is significant majority are in European races. From what I've read, competitors like the equivalent of "Eskimo kisses" (rubbing noses) & show no regard for property. Good reason some US'n's won't participate in many of those events.

 

All of those cars either have been or will be repaired. None of them are totalled. They are racecars. In racing, things get bent. Some owners dont like this, thus not all old racecars are actually raced today. But some owners prefer the cars to live on in their natural habitat.... thus they get raced, bent, repaired, repeat. So what.

Its fun to race them. The owners have the funds to fix them. The public likes to watch them race. Everyone is happy. Everyone but Arlie that is..... but does anyone actually think Arlie is ever going to really be happy?



Terry

 

Ditto that. All of that.

 

"From dust you came......to dust you will return..........."

 

The way i look at it is that if a car was crashed and repaired when it was in its prime, why not now? Sure, it'll cost more but i for one hate how pebble only allow spotless cars that look better than they did when they left the factory so i would never buy a car to show it. If i buy a $10 million car, i'd want to get my $10mil out of it.

Just my .02

 

Like Napolis said ditto that.

But I will also add that the vintage racing craze is exactly what has made many, many of those cars interesting and valuable enough so that they have been dragged out of barns and garages, restored and driven for the enjoyment of all.

When Phil Hill drove the W196S in Monterey some years ago he asked the representative from Mercedes for the limitations he was to observe in driving the car. I was standing there and I dont recall it verbatim but it was something to the effect of "Keep it under redline. We hand built it, if it breaks we will hand fix it".

 

They don't exactly get better by being banged into pieces. Their natural habitat is long gone; vintage cars were built to race in their own time. Today they - like any old car - are museum pieces with no real purpose and there is no single truth about how they should be kept. Trying to find one quickly just leads into another pissing contest.

Best wishes, Kare

 

I was under the impression that any touching was a no no, accidental or on purpose, the competitor is asked to leave. Can anyone confirm this. Goodwood on the other hand looked like racing near the limit with some cars suffering damage. Regarding the original question of this thread, these are race cars from a bygone era and most have never seen this type of car race. The vintage races give those who were either too young or in the wrong place geographically, to see these cars do what they were designed to do, run hard. In the day, these cars were throw aways, today they are the crown jewels! Listening to a 12 cylinder Ferrari engine near red line is an awesome sound.

David Goerndt

 

The thing about these vintage cars is that as long as you have the VIN# plaque Everything else can be rebuilt. There are still craftsmen who can beat aluminum panels & welding a 1950s frame is very easy today. Essentially as long as you have that VIN# plate the car can never really be destroyed & a car worth $5 or $10M can easily be 100% rebuilt for well under $500k

A secret of many of these vintage racers is that the original engine & trans is usually safe in a garage somewhere. Yes there are shops in Modena where you can buy a new "1957" Testa Rossa engine & trans built by the same men who built the originals or their sons.

So I wouldnt spend a lot of time up at night worrying. The guys who race these have already done the worrying & come up with solutions

 

Toys for the rich. Polo ponies don't come cheap either, and are equally difficult to repair or replace. Race cars were made to race.

Ken

 

The answer to this has nothing to do with cars and everything to do with simple economics. I have no problem with the concept that all cars deserve to be restored, but when the end product is going to be worth $50K yet cost $200K to restore it becomes a question of economics. For many however this does not matter its an emotional thing. I have restored a number of cars from the ground up where the amount of $$$ put into them far exceeded their value when done. Then its about passion and not just money.

You like to seek out conflict and your beloved "double standard" so you can troll for arguements when in fact there is no conflict nor any "standard" at all.

Good luck with that.


Terry

 

Well, I disagree. I am quite sure my Daytona does in fact still have a purpose. That purpose is making amazing noises while terrorizing the neighborhood and achieving speeds the local authorities would truely frown upon. It is 100% successful at this purpose!

Watch the Goodwood Revival. All the old cars and old drivers pushing it just as hard as they ever did. Just as good as 1965. Just as much fun. Isnt fun what the "Purpose" to it all really is when you get past all the bullsh_it?


Terry

 

I think it's time to applaude the owners who drive these racing beauties like they were meant to be raced. Even better when drivers like Hardman, Sytner or Mass get their hands on the wheel!

Sure, they get bend sometimes and it's sad when that happens, but it's inevitable if you want to see these cars on the limit - which for me is they only way, not collecting dust in some museum like Molsheim.

 

You got that right! I have enough money in my Europa for a Mondial 3.2 and it's been worth every penny in fun, education and excitement. (I assume if I HAD a 3.2 I'd have put enough money in it for a 348...and if I had a 348 I'd have ...oh never mind.)

Ken

 

come on guys its " the" " car " Reaper. and my first name aint grim













( trying to relieve the tension growing in the thread .......)

 

I know it is politically correct to disagree with this point and state that racingcars are racingcars, no matter when they were built and raced 'professionally' but if I am truly honest, I suspect I wouldn't race a historic racingcar if I ever come to own one. I'd look upon it as a relic from history. Yes, something static. Something that once was, but isn't anymore. Kept clear from any sort of use or abuse. I know, it sounds horrible, so let's hope I never come to own one!

 

At the risk of the big flame, I am going to agree w/ the general premise of Arlie's first post.

I think it's fantastic that folks are spending big bucks and getting their vintage race Ferraris on the track. But I think, first and foremost, that such Owners should view their primary roles as custodians of irreplacable pieces of history.

If there is a 10-point continuum between, on the "1" end, keeping the car in a museum and, at the other "10" end, driving the crap out of it and trading paint as if it were a Miata spec racer, I would vote for being at about a 6.

I think it's great that the wealthier guys in the game can simply crash the crap out of the car and have it all re-sorted and ready to go a month later. On the other hand, the panel that Scaglietti beat with his hammer in 1957 is now gone, replaced by the panel made by the very qualified restorer (who probably did a nicer job).

I prefer the north american vintage race scene where the "cars are the stars" and are probably driven and kept close to the "6" on my scale as opposed to the euro scene where the cars are viewed in a less holy light and kept at an "8" to "9" level.

While I think it is cool to see the cars driven hard, the most disgusting thing I 've probably ever seen was Sir Stirling Moss taking the LeMans-winning Aston Martin up the inside, on the dirt, before the first turn of the first lap of Monterey, and put it right into the side of Old Yaller (3 or 4 years ago?). It wasn't cool; it was disrespectful (to the car) and dangerous - and if it had been anyone else, Steve Earle probably would've banned him for life and not just one year. If you want to drive like that, get yourself a new, and fungible, racecar and join SCCA. (not that SCCA would put up w/ that either)

There is no inconsistency with refusing to over-restore a vintage race Ferrari but also refusing to drive it as if you're trying to win the Mille Miglia. Ferrari was going to have another car ready for Fangio if he totalled one (and survived); but Ferrari isn't going to make anymore 860 Monzas. I would bet that most of us here would probably agree that the proper spot on the continuum would be between "6" and "8"? Ok, maybe Arlie is at "5"?

bottom line: drive 'em and respect 'em.

 

Nope...not destroyed...bent but not destroyed.


I guess that's the GOOD thing about the 275's value, these days.....

 

Is this last car (Ferrari 275 GTB/C) repaired again?