Vintage racing destroying Ferraris???

Couldn't disagree more. . . !

Walking through the great art museums of Europe, New York, Mexico City, etc, I am reminded that certain objects have transcended their original "purpose" and have become something greater than themselves. These objects have become, in reality, "priceless".

How should we deal with "priceless" objects? We should collectively seek to preserve them, because they no longer should be "owned"; they are a public trust, they should be "cared for" and treated in a way that benefits us all.

None of this, of course, tells us HOW these priceless objects should be cared for, but simply that they MUST be cared for in a way that does not destroy their intrinsic nature. You and I may not agree about how to clean the ceiling of the sistine chapel, but we certainly would agree that the ceiling of the sistine chapel should never be destroyed or defaced, no matter how high the bid or how wealthy the bidder. . .

Have old Ferraris begun crossing over from being merely valuable to being "priceless"? Helluva question. . .

 

When major museums start showing up at major auctions and bid on cars, then they've entered the "priceless" category.

But there is a difference. What are the most valuable art items? Usually paintings, right? And having study art history in college (that's where all of the cute girls were), there were numerous examples where art was created as form of a p!ssing contest between rich patrons. People wanted to posses beautiful things. Nothing wrong with that. Art for the sake of art.

Now, which are the most "valuable" Ferraris? Old race cars. Cars that were meant to win races, not sit in some museum from day one. And the reasons they are valuable is that they were successful and they did manage to look good in the process.

The vast majority of Ferraris are in private hands. Now there may be established norms for how to maintain the value of the cars, or even increase it. But at the end of the day, somebody out there wanted a car to be theirs. They spent their money on it. Let them enjoy it.

 

I agree and applaud that people who own valuable classic cars have "established norms" of how to maintain their cars. They know the essence of their property and stay true to that spirit, whether they race, display or restore. This would seem to reflect the idea that these cars are no longer "theirs" in the truest sense of the word, that by owning one, they owe a sort of duty to the rest of us to take care of them appropriately.

But to simply say that they bought it, they own it, they can do whatever the hell they want with it, scares the crap out of me. I personally think there is more to a ferrari than the vin plate under the dash. Could we all stand by and accept Bill Gates running a couple of 250LM's through the crusher?

Purposefully burning a Van Gogh in public would be a tragedy worth condemnation by the international community, not simply a "loss of property value" on the part of the owner. So too would it be with a couple of crushed LMs.

 

. . .a couple of LM's crushed ON PURPOSE, of course.

I like racing around in vintage cars like anybody else, keeps the patina alive, but Fangio ain't racing the things anymore, so seeing richies flog the crap out of their cars (both in the garage and on the track) just so they can boast that they "beat Phil Hill's best time here", seems like a load of unnecessary crap.

 

Why should that scare the crap out of you? It happens all of the time. You've obviously never heard of Walter Medlin before. As far as I'm concerned, live and let live.

Burning a Van Gogh would be a loss to our cultural fabric, but plenty of them have been lost already. Lots of our history is lost every day. Not much "society" can do unless there is arson involved.

Life is way too damn short to worry about what someone does with their cars.

 

Certainly more than 1/2 of the ruins of ancient Rome have been lost to pillagers, both public and private, but that doesn't mean we all should just shrug, live and let live, when the other half is in danger of turning to rubble.

Regarding our cultural fabric (and we both obviously consider these cars to be part of it), I feel we have a duty to recognize the weave of the fabric, to learn how to care for it, and to teach others to see what we see. It's worth preserving. A statement like "lots of history is lost every day" can often lead down the inevitable road of "so who cares about preserving it?"

I certainly don't accuse you not caring, etc, but a vocal minority of individuals hollering loudly when it sees the abuse of international treasures and objects de art CAN make a difference.

 

Then you should be horrified by this picture. I'm not.
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The topic seems to be evolving into a philosophical discussion of Ferrari as art... So, here's my take:

Its only a matter of time that certain Ferrari's "transcend the automobile" and are viewed as fine sculpture. Specially the "one off" styling exercises by Pinin Farina of the early fifties. Some of the beautiful race cars will become objects of art and are now. But, there are few of these cars on the track and I think the great art objects will slowly disappear from aggressive vintage racing. Therefore, living on. Dont worry.
Many vintage cars will keep racing because most will not rise to art.

From my point of view, there is no difference between the finest modern sculptures in museums and some great post war modern automobiles. We are a little to close in time to discern Italian automotive art as a collective group. But time will tell and views will develop. Looking at sculptures of dynamism by Bracusi (Bird in Space) and Umberto Boccioni, it's clear that there are fine Italian automobiles that stir the same emotions and interest. ( Dynamism was a movement with the intent to express motion in art -- early 1920s).
The Italians were certainly on the leading edge of automotive styling in the fifties and were very passionate about the discoveries of the modern form. They tried to invent new forms by weaving combinations of technology, aerodynamics, movement, para -organic volumes, etc. A very rich period! Technology began to dominated the sixties, seventies and beyond. Today it seems, the computer has enable artists to begin styling again.
Distance in time will sharpen views of what will transcend to art.
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That's not how it works......there are a lot of ordinary guys, garage owners, ex-professional drivers and hired hands driving a lot of the cars - the thing all of them and the most of the rich owner-drivers [including the Aussie ones ;-) have in common is wanting to see cars driven as they were meant to be - and the fans appreciate this, even if we wince when one gets shunted.

When some car is being pedalled gently round in a 'no risk' or 'limited talent' way, we wonder what it would sound and look and smell like driven hard. And their hobby is racing, not demonstrating - they want to beat, or do their best against, whoever they are racing, not to be a 50-year old lap record which they all know is irrelevant.

Paul M

 

Agreed....you cannot do multi million dollar damage to a car..........big bucks certainly but otherwise not possible!

 

Like I stated before some of these wrecked "vintage" cars most likely have replica engines & trans Ive even heard of replica frames. So I think you guys can rest assured that the real deal is safe

 

I know, I did the Car Guy tour a few years ago & this shop in Modena had retired Ferrari mechanics who will build you any replica engine you like. Ferrari, Maserati, whatever, any year,any model. For a small fee of course LOL

 

Like when a piece of wedding cake from the King of England's wedding in the 1800's transcends food and becomes art. Of course, Elaine ate it anyway, so it transformed from art back to food.

Elaine would race a million dollar Ferrari I guess.

Ken

 

Why do you guys persist in even argueing with Arlie? He does not even contest that his purpose is to troll.


DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!


Terry

 

Terry,

Arlie is our personal, vintage section, troll. He's fun to argue with.

Art S.

 

You really know your classics!

 

Arlie,

It’s a vicious circle, the racers get wrecked; the 2+2's are then broken up to repair or reproduce them.

Regards,

Art S.

PS. if everyone agreed, the conversations in these threads would be boring.

 

I see the cycle >>>

Is there such a thing as Ferrari car DNA???? Maybe funding is possible for a kind of stem cell research that would clone similar metallic structures of undesirable Ferrari's that could be used to grow donor parts for race cars or art cars that are crashed on the track? Any comments??

 

Did you see the letter regarding that in Cavallino I wrote a few years ago?