Vintage vs Modern

I think there is a LOT to be said for P4/5!

Maybe its a generational thing, but while I love the styling (and history) of vintage cars, every time I've driven one I've been disappointed. good brakes, stable handling, and being reasonably assured it will start when you want and not stop when you don't is rather nice.

 

Not me. I've been very impressed with my 1974 BB and my 1967 GTC, which sandwich me for age. They really are good cars, even now. And driving them is a real sense of occasion, more so than my 550. But reliability is less than modern cars, of that there is no question, and it is certainly nice to have creature comforts now and again. So, for me, these 3 are a great mix.


Onno

 

It depends...

The most important thing is to have a car with personality. That is, to me at least, the car has to be able to talk to me. It might not have all of the smoothness of modern GT, but the steering has to feel communicative, the engine has to respond like it is a part of my right foot, and the brakes, when used really hard have to be able to be held on the edge of lockup as I drag the car down and not be constantly dipping into the ABS...

Most modern GT cars, unfortunately just don't do that. The technology today is so good, and it is available to even relatively small manufacturers, that they can engineer all the soul out of the car. What we end up with is a heavy car that is so good, rides so well and is fast, but it has essentially no real personality. I tend to think that a car needs to be pretty light to communicate with the driver and most newer cars aren't light at all. So that's the biggest reason that we like these older cars. At the same time there are a few (very few) "hair shirt" sports cars that will in the future be considered classics, that are satjsfying to drive, just now they are few and far between.

Now when you have something like the P4/5, or an Enzo, you have the capability to have both worlds, personality, very high performance and modern capability, so I can see your conflict.

Now, in light of this conflict, if you feel like, since the P4/5 is so good, that 0846, 0854, or J6 just isn't fun to drive anymore, and you feel the desperate need to clean out your garage, just let me know and I'd be glad to take any one of the three off of your hands and give them a good home......

 

I had a 246 Dino GT and I have a new F430. Aside from the fact that they are both 2 place mid engine cars, they are completely different.

I liked my 246. I like my F430. I don't see why that's so difficult for anyone to understand. Both have their place in the world. Why not enjoy them both?

 

Some time I fell me like an alien or a boy in Wonderland, when I read and enjoy your and other "Super Ferrarichatters".
I must say my knowldge of Ferrari racing car is so improved (even if I'm in love with them from fifthy years) from when I discover this beautifull place, that I can say all seems new for me.
I was never able to have a Ferrari,I only own a Triumph TR5 and a Lancia Fulvia HF, but I remember the subtle sensation of the improved rigidity of the car when I put the hard top on the Triumph(only 6 bolt!) or driving it with only the front wheel under control....
I think you have with the P4/5 the best of all the cars.... luky and expecial men!
I wish to share with you the only contact I have with Mr.Ferrari; as I just told you, this is what I feel he is thinking about you from somewhere!
Alessandro
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A big difference for me between Vintage and modern is roadholding/grip.

I live in the countryside in UK where the roads are twisty. The cornering speeds of modern cars are so high that you cannot use them to anywhere near their potential, whereas on an old car with 4 1/2 or 5 inch rims you can slide them around (especially in the wet) without having to be doing such outrageous speeds and have the pleasure of participating in the full dynamic experience.

Personally I find it really difficult difficult to go out in a fast modern car or bike on the public roads in the UK as the temptation to open it up is too great.

On the circuit it's a different story and the pure driving experience of a well sorted modern car is fabulous, though I'm not sure I would enjoy the really high G of the fastest single seaters. The upside of racing/tracking the vintage cars is the atmosphere and different crowd at these meetings.

 

I totally agree. If you take a modern car, and in particular one with really sticky tires, if you are pushing it on the street and hit a patch of dirt or a wet spot you are going on an expensive ride into the tullies. I think this is one of the key reasons that driving events have become popular, you can use the car to its limits and not have as much risk of going off and hitting something....

 

With proper maintenance, you can have decent brakes, cold A/C and an IPod connection in older cars.

 

330 GTCs have good brakes and A/C...

 

True, but it is still a vintage ride. I still prefer the classics, old analog feel and systems that work.

Oil pressure is a good thing, as are brakes that work more than once.

 

I switch back and forth between 50s/60s and modern and muse about where, if one had to make a single distinction, a single modern/vintage line could be drawn. The 50s cars I know don't make it north of that line, but I'd imagine there are exceptions. The 330GTC with a/c and power windows may fall on the modern side. I think the line would be in the 60s somewhere.

Perhaps if I drove pre-war cars I'd draw the line somewhere else. A single distinction is unreasonable in any event.

I prefer analog but admit I miss nav/stereo/bluetooth/sat radio/climate control/cruise control/air bags etc etc.

 

Having owned several modern high performance cars (admittedly none as unique as P 4/5) and driven them in both Europe and the US, I'm certainly disillusioned. Outside a closed circuit there is nowhere to fully utilize such performance in good conscience or with any reasonable measure of common sense. The chatrooms for these cars are filled with people conspiring to reach 200 mph together with reports of horrendous accidents on public roads. They dare each other to turn off the DSC, and then fly backward off mountain roads I had unfortunately recommended. It's no longer possible to gradually approach and toy with the cars' limits. High lateral forces offer only the joyless options of either an electronic nanny or courting the knife-edge of disaster with mere human reflexes. Given increasing traffic densities and roadways only marginally better than decades ago, this approaches homicidal.

Analog aesthetics are wonderful. And I have yet to receive any gesture of resentment passing a Prius in a fifty year-old sports car.

It's simply a matter of picking the right tool for the task. We should be happy that vintage equipment remains useable.

 

The oldest Ferrari I've ever been in was a Lusso, and was only a passenger. Certainly didn't have blistering acceleration, or incredible cornering speed, but there was a certain magic to the experience unlike how I feel in more contemporary models.

To me the older cars had a certain class and elegance quite different from those of more modern times, similar to how I feel about the movie stars of that era as opposed to those of today.

I'm not trying to make a case for one being 'better' than another, just very different.

That said, somewhat in keeping with Coldwater's comments, IMHO Dinos are the best of both worlds. Many of the feelings and emotions of the older cars in a slightly more modern vehicle. An absolute blast to drive without putting yourself, or others, in danger, or getting yourself into massive amounts of trouble or expense.

 

I'm on the bottomfeeding end in this crowd...had a '64 330 4-headlighter, now have an '83 308GTS...but still feel minimally qualified to comment.

The 330 was a wonderful first-ownership, from what I'd call the "transitional" era between the '50s road Ferrari and the more-refined post '65 era. Basically an antique, even by 1970 standards, but memorable from startup procedure to shutdown. Every drive was an experience.

The 308, by comparison, IS a contemporary car, if you leave off the computerized widgetry/gadgetry, and airbags. Other than the marginal A/C, it's hardly different in comfort level from our very nice '99 Toyota 4Runner, yet still has satisfactory power, cranker-up-and-go reliability, great sportscar ambiance and roadability, and its own "to-die-for" sounds. I'd also say every drive's an experience in the 308; there's the same excitement factor I had in the 330, knowing I'm headed to the garage to fire it up.

Next Ferrari, maybe my last? The 308 has spoiled me with an upgrade-level of comfort, so it'll be toward the more-comforts end, one era or the other. Hopefully, I'll be able to lay hands on the dough for a nice 330 GTC; failing that, a C/4. When it comes down to hardcore reasons, I prefer timing chains to belts.

A 550 would be more easily affordable/available to purchase, flat-out luxurious, and no doubt have more power than I need, but what the hey.

Think I'd rather wait out another Vintage 12, late 60'-early 70's, with the 550 as a definite fallback position.

 

I'm headed the other direction, from the 60s cars I already have back into the late 40s and 50s. This was a special era, when cars were coachbuilt and individually unique, yet unlike pre-war cars they are quite drivable and have reasonable maintenance requirements. Post-'67 with smog and safety patches, plastic interiors and unserviceable electronics are a definite 'sell' in my view.

 

I'd love to visit the 50's in terms of ownership; it's rare privilege now.

For me: sell house, take cash, buy concours '56 Boano or Ellena, live in homeless shelter.

Afraid I'll have to settle for the vicarious end of Vintage Vintage ownership.

 

Title of the thread was vintage vs modern, not vintage vs house

The TR5 and Fulvia HF are especially good examples of late (by my standards) vintage that are rare and rewarding but not unreasonably priced. Going back further in time, I think Lancia B20s and Alfa SSs are terrific values. I just don't believe that later cars (70s onward) with inferior aesthetics and more complex maintenance challenges represent sustainable value (even though a/c is welcome on certain days).

 

If I'm not driving with the fear of my car overheating, or a set of points giving up, or I can't listen to the sound of carburetors sucking air, then it doesn't matter what I'm driving.
Newer Ferraris are great cars I'm sure. I have no interest in driving one other than test drives.
Cheers,
TomB

 

Name of the board is FerrariChat, not TriumphChat, LanciaChat, or AlfaChat.

We're talking way different animals, though I concur with your points regarding aesthetic and maintenance issues in regard to later production Ferrari cars.

Here in a Dallas summer, 7PM and 100F outside, a 1983 308GTS might as well not have A/C. Better to just take off the T-top, or not drive at all.

 

Right.

Considering your climate, I'd go for the Boano/Ellena. One coming up next month with a relatively modest pre-sale estimate: http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?SaleCode=MO09&CarID=r250