Vintage vs Modern

I would say that the real change in feel happened in the mid to late sixties. The difference between a 275 and a Daytona and a mid-year Corvette and a shark style are incredible. The later cars are much more difficult to work on and they seem to have crossed a line that put the premium on performance numbers, even if it meant higher weight and less "feel" to the car.

That said, this weekend I fell in love again with my '65 fuel injected Corvette. Saturday morning, running on an almost empty highway at 90mph and 4000 rpm, sidepipes sounding like an old speedboat - the definition of Motoring.

George

 

No misunderstanding here, we're in the same place. In this hobby the most tantalizing goals are always just a little out of reach. The means available change, and then the goals always change right along with them. It's better that way, keeps us alive. I'm scheming about how to score an SWB before the next great wave of government-induced inflation kicks in, but I don't think I'll make it.

Having devoted much thought and study to all this, I just wanted to caution about putting hard-earned savings into post '60s Ferraris, as in my view they have the same economic characteristics as boats. No offense intended if that's what you have just now.

 

I've got a very nice 308 and probably could recover 80% of total investment to date in a sale. That amount represents a very small percentage of NW. If I can truly afford a second Ferrari, selling the 308 won't be a necessity to buy it, but xtra $$$ would help.

I'd like to have my cake and eat it: keep the 308 and get the dreamed-of '56 Boano or '67 GTC. Car space at home would be the problem then.

Dream on, Scott.

 

from my humbled position of age and many miles, I have concluded it's better to drive fast in a slow car than drive slow in a fast car. growing up driving cast off 3 liter v-12 Ferrari as daily drivers
was great back then ,now there is more traffic,more LE, and not any more room to really move even most of the Autostrade and Autobahn have limits, so I am happy driving hard vehicles of meager performance but really driving ,rather than just trundling along in some super car.

jeffrey Vogel

 

+1, considering the roads, traffic conditions and speed limits (80kph max tollways) here in Tokyo/Yokohama, Japan. w/ smiles Jimmy

 

Didn't seem to stop you from having fun back in May.

 

Perhaps this is a little party pooper-ish, but I think a general (very general) adage might say that:

the CHARM of a vintage ride is inversely proportional to the degree with which you need to depend on it as daily transportation.

Having had to rely on my Porsche 356 for a period of time through a somewhat dank Atlanta winter and sauna summer, I can tell you it sat undriven for some time after my new car got delivered. Those rustic charms one waxes poetic about grow cold when you are trying to wipe the condensation off the inside of the windshield with your sleeve while simultaneously freezing your behind off and dodging tractor-trailers that are barely illuminated by the wheezy glow of a dying 6-volt system. Or, conversely, watching the temp needle edge ever closer to the red, and playing that game where you try and extrapolate whether you are going to arrive at your destination before it blows up.

If you don't have a timetable to keep, and can pick and choose when and where you use it, it's hard to beat a vintage ride for sheer visceral thrill. It's a feast for the senses.

But if you have to be someplace, at a given time, through heat, rain, traffic, whatever, a modern ride is maybe the chicken's way out, but hey, I'll take it. Plus, as Mr. G pointed out, the Mrs. generally appreciates the AC (I know mine does)

 

You say a 308 is a modern car but sometimes it beats me up! Getting in and out, the heat, the heavy clutch, and while overall its a reliable car, there is always something mechanical that eats away at me. At the time I have a constant backfire at low RPM. I wonder if I were to purchase something like a 550 how much I would use the 308????

I often consider other variables: What if the weather wasnt as hot in miami? What if I wasnt so big and fat and actually fit in the car? What if I had more money to take the car to Tim Stanford at the first sign of a tunning problem?

I hate the heat, dislike the beach, hate crowds/clubs, and generally like to be very comfortable. So why did I drive a 1966 Mustang convertible and 1973 big block Corvette to highschool and college in the mid 1990's. As late as 2006, I was driving a beat up Porsche 944 with an infant seat in it to transport my son! Talk about a struggle.....

Inside, I am a little afraid to buy that sensible Porsche 997. I am afraid that it will end that fantasy I have with old cars. The one that causes me to read and wonder about Ferraris every day. Its heaven to pickup an old magazine (I have thousands) and dream..........

 

I would like to add a reference statement about classic cars (and not just Ferrari's as I've had several)

"Sometimes the F*ing your getting isn't worth the F*ing your getting".

Just a few things to expect with one of these lovely "classics":

Overheating, no AC, no heat, no ventilation, bad brakes, worried about every little squeak and rattle, spending 5 minutes to put up the top, being out paced by a VW Bug from a stop light, the continual search for parts, marrying your mechanic, waiting 10 minutes to move after starting the car to make sure the oil is warm, anticipating every disaster behind each water and oil leak, headlights that could be outshown by a Zippo lighter, windshield wipers that don't, watching the gauges more than the road, watching out for other idiotic drivers as they uncarelessly scoot around you, searching each addition of Hemmings for anything NOS (even if you have 3 already because you never know when you'll need it and may never see it again), arriving anywhere drenched in sweat, wondering if that smell of gas is from your car or the guy in front of you, looking up your tailpipe for signs of oil burning, double clutching every shift to save the gearbox, and having your family and friends wonder out loud if you need to see a shrink.

I won't disagree that classic cars are fun, interesting, exciting to drive, and invigorating. But, there's a definate down side. Many who think owning a classic is just a ball of fun all the time. Let me tell you, it isn't always.

I love classics. I also love just having an amazing car that blows away everything else on the road -- and will get me home after doing it. There's room for both in my garage.

 

Agree, a vintage (pre 1970, more or less), euro sports/GT as a daily driver would be rough.

My '83 308 would be nice except now...TX mid-to-late summer. Only real useability prob is weak A/C & system cooling for climate.

 

I love midyear Vettes...had a '63 340 HP split-window many years ago, paid $2250, sold for $2250. Fun, but an expensive prop. to maintain at that age.

Then in '95-'99, a '69 bigblock roadster...a graceless, clunky, brutally fast beast. Got rid of it, made $ on resto, haven't missed it a second.

Finances won't permit both Vettes and Ferraris, if they would I'd have a '65 or '66 smallblock roadster with side exhausts, knockoffs, the whole bit, in there somewhere.

 

Much of that is you, though. If you worry about every little squeak and rattle and wait 10 minutes until the oil is warm before you drive off and generally place the car up on a pedestal, then it's you that has the issue and not the car.

Certainly late 1960s cars and newer, you can hop in, pump the gas, twist the key, and drive off just like any other car. Even in the rain.

Many of the things you describe could be just as applicable to a brand new 599, if not more. Wait until you get that first ding on your NEW Ferrari!

Incidentally, I'm sympathetic-- I used to feel that way myself, but over time I've gotten over it. I do stress if a crowd starts looking at any of my cars, because I just know that's when they won't start. But that goes for the new ones just as much as the old ones.

 

The first month I got a new F430, I got a door ding. A few bucks later, the door ding was gone. Problem solved.

The CEL light came on. The dealer picked it up, fixed it free of charge, and delivered it back the next day after cleaning it inside and out. Problem solved.

Driving my old Dino (which for over a year was the only car I owned) and my new F430 are completely different experiences. I can tell you for a fact that I worry a lot less getting in the F430 than I ever did in any time of 15 years of Dino ownership. I won't say I enjoyed one more than the other. I just make the case the owning a classic isn't the same as owning a modern car. Anyone who's not experienced it will never understand.

 

I own a new 612 and a 69 365GT, so I have plenty of experience.

 

I agree and see that owning any classic will never always be a ball of joy, but the times everything works absolutely makes it worth it (I say this now, knock on wood). Ultimately it comes down to just how willing someone is to put up with the hick-ups, which is certainly an individual preference. Plus, I'm young and relatively new owner of middle-age Ferrari, so I have yet to bear the brunt of anything truly bad due to the age.

Cheers,
Matthew

 

"Just a few things to expect with one of these lovely "classics":

Overheating, no AC, no heat, no ventilation, bad brakes, worried about every little squeak and rattle, spending 5 minutes to put up the top, being out paced by a VW Bug from a stop light, the continual search for parts, marrying your mechanic, waiting 10 minutes to move after starting the car to make sure the oil is warm, anticipating every disaster behind each water and oil leak, headlights that could be outshown by a Zippo lighter, windshield wipers that don't, watching the gauges more than the road, watching out for other idiotic drivers as they uncarelessly scoot around you, searching each addition of Hemmings for anything NOS (even if you have 3 already because you never know when you'll need it and may never see it again), arriving anywhere drenched in sweat, wondering if that smell of gas is from your car or the guy in front of you, looking up your tailpipe for signs of oil burning, double clutching every shift to save the gearbox, and having your family and friends wonder out loud if you need to see a shrink."

but those are the GOOD parts, hell if you want an appliance not a motorcar buy a Lexus the ownership of a classic is a badge of being involved with your machine not an expression of your net worth.

JV

 

+1.

 

+2. I am certain that Wolfchen must have a dossier on me and my Dinos, because I have experienced all of the horrors that he has so eloquently described. That being said, even if I lived next door to the factory in Maranello, I would not rely on either of my Dinos as a daily driver. I also like real A/C, power windows with actual power, and plug-in diagnostics for when trouble occurs. Our "old cars," be they from the '50s or the '70s, are wonderful sources of amusement and satisfaction, but they have their specific niche in our lives as car people. They cannot be, and are not, the be-all and end-all. They are the frosting that makes the cake worth eating! End of metaphors! Fred

 

Jim,
the difference in driving experience between a sorted example and the other 99% of older Corvettes is amazing. I would venture to say more so than most other older cars. Because of what they are, so many of these cars are in such poor driving condition that they give the other, good, examples a bad name. Couple that with the fact that even two correct cars of the same year, but different options can have substantially different driving characteristics. A base model '66 restored to be shown will not even feel like the same make as a '66 427/425 horse coupe wearing Pirelli P4000's and set up with the steering on "fast" ratio and the shifter linkage set to the short throw setting. A car like this is more than a worthy adversary to our beloved 275's.

Regards,

George

 

My concept of old versus modern, a 1956 Boano number 581 vs a 1960 Pf coupe number 1747. They were very different, the Boano a beast and the Pf a sweetheart.

Ed
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Last summer at a small rally, I followed a local guy in a 365 GTC in my 355. He tore down a twisty little road and left me behind. He knew the road better (and I am a bit of a weenie), but I was going pretty much as fast as I dared and he left me for dead. Gave me deserving respect for a well sorted, well driven older car.

He did have to stay over downtown when the headlights wouldn't come on after dinner

Brief video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEzODi8aVVE

 

Jim-

How are you? Hope you're well.
Do you mean "car show" as the cars for sale were of a high caliber and carefully selected or because of the venue? Over all the results were better than expected as I remember. The RM Monterey auction will than be just an auction with lesser quality cars with no Ferrari factory in the back ground, therefore time to get back to the business of actually selling cars, therefore lowered estimates? Am I getting warmer?

Geno

The RM Factory Auction was a car show not an auction. They're dropping their estimates because they're in the auction business not the car show business.

 

First off, no one buys a vintage car and than worries about the lack off creature comforts the car may have or it's reliability. So bringing those differences up is not prudent to this thread's topic. Many who decided to get into a vintage car get disillusioned fast the first time they drive it, especially the first "flat bed" experience that comes their way. One must be ready and willing to except and than fall in love with these idiosyncrasies. Overall in my opinion, vintage cars, specifically Ferraris, will yield a driving experience that only a few modern cars can only come close too delivering. Driving a 365 BB or a 250 GTL is always an event and there are all types of aspects that you quickly recognize that only cars like those can deliver. Driving a CGT or an Enzo, cars that were developed to give the driver a very special experience: deliver, but not in the same way. It's just not the same is it? Many of you know what I mean.

Geno.