Virginia goes after Out-of-State License Plates

There are places that are tough about enforcement, but I do not know anywhere else that will arrest you and charge you with reckless driving for going as little as 10mph over.

 

Your real estate taxes would be even higher without the personal property tax on cars. If you own real estate, personal property tax is a benefit to you because it spreads the tax base to those that don't own real estate but do own vehicles (which is a lot of people in NoVA, ~40%).

I like living in VA, so I pay the taxes and am glad I'm in position to have a Ferrari instead of a Honda, even if the personal property tax on it is more than all of my other cars combined. It's part of the cost of ownership. If personal property tax goes away, real estate will have to cover the difference. So it's only going to help you if you have an expensive car (or a lot of cars) and a cheap house (or rent).

In any case, this is not something new and if you moved here, you should have known about it. I don't really feel bad for you, much like I don't feel bad for myself. I pay it, and I don't care because I go look in my garage and there's a Ferrari in there. If it bothered me, I'd move or try to affect change in the government. What I wouldn't do is dodge the taxes by registering an LLC in Montana or registering it in some other state. Morally it's repugnant to me.

The guy with the Honda paying less in taxes is perfectly fine with me. He's driving a Honda, that's suffering enough.

 

It is a bad tax and the argument about real estate tax being higher is a bad one. Real estate taxes are some of the highest in the nation already. Good article I found here, worth a quick read. I own homes in other states and they seem to get buy without this nonsense.

Virginia tax machine runs over car owners - Watchdog.org

 

I am no longer a VA resident because, in part, of VA's attitude. About everything. It's a godd*mn police state. And, anyone who's happy with that isn't paying attention.

However, that doesn't stop VA from trying to tax me on things I may happen to own but may garage or, from time to time, use there. As I said, I still own property there.

Pure, unadulterated money grab. Nothing more. And, trying to justify it is absurd.

CW

 

That's what YOU would say. That's not what I would say.

All vehicles are legally registered SOMEWHERE. The only reason for VA to require that it be registered there is the tax revenue. Why should it, "have the right to ensure vehicles kept a majority of the time in said state are taxed/registered appropriately?" If they're legally taxed/registered elsewhere, why should VA care? Oh, that's right...more money for VA.

CW

 

Really? The safety inspection is a pretty pathetic fig leaf. But, if you want to play it... Cars EVERY DAY from Maryland (or elsewhere) are driving into VA to do work there. Are they subject to the safety inspection, too? No. So, what you're saying is that interstate commerce is trumped by the need to police our state borders for safety? Or, is it taxes? Gimmeabreak.

Many/most vehicles that may operate in VA do "pay their fair share." They pay it elsewhere in terms of property taxes. But, they purchase gasoline and are taxed at the pump (a usage tax). Those tax funds are to go to the road funds. But, hey, don't let that get in the way of more taxes, right? I mean, how many taxes does VA need? There's sales tax on the vehicle at the time of purchase. There's also may be a gas guzzler tax (for the PRIVILEGE of consuming more?). Consumption taxes at the pump. And, of course, annual property taxes. Oh, and then there's income taxes. I know, I know...I'm probably overlooking a whole bunch of other taxes. So, sue me.

I don't live in VA. I happen to still own some property there. I visit from time to time. I may visit more than 60 days. I may even drive a car there. Sorry you feel I'm "leeching off" of you, but I'm most definitely NOT. For the amount of taxes I've paid in VA, I should be getting a refund. I've paid for people kids to go to school, yet I don't have any. So, aren't those kids leeching off of me?

And, as you note, I get taxed on my real estate, too. Oh, yes. That's my annual real property taxes. So, you're telling me I should be happy about that? Um, no.

Sorry, again, but your arguments are not persuasive. Too bad about your attitude, though. It's going to take people to stand up if they're ever going to have a chance to get their state back. Problem is, it's now happening everywhere. Government can't ever live within its' means, so what does it do? Endlessly raises taxes, that's what. Enjoy VA, I guess. The hot and humid weather. The traffic. The high taxes. The over-aggressive police enforcement. Yup, beautiful state. Oh, sorry...Commonwealth.

CW

 

And, how does any of that your response justify taxing a vehicle that's legally registered elsewhere? You're hinging your logic on the basis of the car spending most of its' time somewhere. What justifies that? Nothing. It's purely an arbitrary standard selected by a bunch of tax-greedy legislators. Period.

CW

 

How nice for you. But, that's a red herring.

CW

 

That's certainly a big problem (the one of appreciating cars), of course. So, let's say I have an F40 in VA. What's my property taxes? Anyone? Oh, but it's fine to tax me, right? I'm rich. So, have at it, right? And, let's say as an F40 owner I'm paying tens of thousands for the privilege of a VA registration. Yet, the car drives less than a thousand miles a year. How is that fair? There's also some guy driving a beat up Honda 20,000+ miles a year in VA, yet paying virtually nothing for a VA registration and the ACTUAL use of VA roads.

The pro-car tax guys just don't want to acknowledge how absurd it has become.

CW

 

Montana is one of the better known states for attracting people to register they cars out-of-state to avoid taxes.

 

Exactly! We all consume or have access to the same resources regardless of what you drive/pay.

If there was a cap then I wouldn't have as much of an issue depending on the cap.

 

How is that a red herring? I like living in VA,so it's worth paying the tax for me. The total of my house and personal property tax is less than in other states for just property tax, so it does not bother me much. If you don't like it, don't live in VA or try to change the laws. I don't like the personal property tax here, but you will never convince the large land owners and high end real estate owners to change it as the tax burden will shift to them and they're the ones that peddle the influence in the state. If you want to decrease taxes overall, that's a different discussion.

 

They also do not tax boats or watercraft, also horse trailers with personal property tax in Va.

I have always hated personal property tax, it really is a triple tax. They tax when you buy the car, they hit you with personal property tax and they make you buy plates every year.

However, we have great schools in PW and services, so, I guess you get what you pay for.

 

I think you meant to say that "Virginia does tax boats and horse trailers" with property taxes. There is no break on either the Horse trailer or boat as there is on cars. I have both and they tax both in Fairfax County. Other counties can decide on their own.

The Dems and Liberals love the car tax because it is a source of unbalanced taxing that benefits those driving cheap cars and punishes people who infrequently drive nice cars. They very much prefer to have a mechanism to aggressively tax rich people for having a nice car over a higher Sales tax (which most other States have) that is "regressive because it punishes the poor people".

 

I don't think you understand the purpose of the personal property tax - it's to spread the tax burden to people that don't own real estate. The guy in the cheap Honda that rents an apartment still has to pay property taxes where he wouldn't have to if there were no personal property tax. The whole purpose is to benefit large land/real estate owners so they don't have to pay as large a share of taxes. It's decidedly not a Dem policy, but that starts to get into P&R...

 

It's a red herring because this isn't about what you "feel" or "like." This is about an abuse of government power. Just because you "like" it or "feel" it's okay, doesn't justify it.

For the record, I left VA. For many reasons. But, I still own property there. I pay VA property taxes. I even pay exorbitantly high VA property taxes on my car that's in my garage there (I've put less than 4,000 miles on it in 3 years). It's nothing more than a money grab by legislators. The fact that you may "like" it is irrelevant to me and the justification, legality or Constitutionality of the matter.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but good luck getting anything changed in the legislature on this. To make change, one must vote with one's feet. I did. That doesn't mean I still don't have to knuckle under to their BS taxes and gestapo tactics when I'm there checking in on my property, though. And, the voters of VA need to take their Commonwealth back from the tax-happy legislators. Good luck with that...

CW

 

I have never heard of anyone being arrested just for going 80 in a 70 without other issues being involved. But I have been ticketed in Maryland for 10 mph over on Rt. 50 having been nailed by an officer's radar from a bucket truck.

The law does need to be changed. 20 mph over might make sense in a rain storm and in a lot of cases. But on a clear sunny day? No. Also remember that the 80mph part was written when the top speed limit in the Commonwealth was 65mph, not 70mph.

That a vehicle doesn't need to be registered in the location that it spends the most time in is totally illogical. If Virginia has enough positives that you want to spend the majority of your time in it, or leave your car there for the majority of the year, than you should pay the taxes that Virginia has set for it. If Virginia doesn't entice you enough to justify that cost, than go somewhere else. American Freedom at its best.

 

Collecting taxes from people trying to dodge it is an abuse of power? I don't think that argument holds water...

Like I said, I like VA, so why would I leave?

If you're just checking on your property there should be no need to be here for over 6 months of the year, which is the only way this would apply to you on a normal use vehicle. I get the issue with a limited use car that sits, and if the cost is exorbitant it would probably make financial sense to store it elsewhere and ship it or drive it in just when you want it (which sounds like not often).

This crack down isn't intended for people like you, and I dare say you'd probably never have an issue if you really are only checking on your property occasionally, it's intended for the residents that purposely register their car out of state or keep an out of state registration after moving while living full time in the state for the purpose of dodging taxes. In which case I have zero issue with it and don't view it as an abuse of power, at least no more an abuse than the people attempting to dodge the taxes are committing.

However, how is that different from having to pay property tax on your real estate whether you use it or not (ie vacation home)?

Like I said, I'm no fan of the personal property tax, but that's part of living here and I chose to live here knowing that and chose to buy a Ferrari knowing it would cost me every year. It's not something new.

Fwiw, Fairfax at least has an exemption for antique vehicles that lowers the tax 50x (1 cent per $100 value), so whoever it was shouldn't have been paying the regular rate on his Dino...Even a million dollar classic would only be a hundred a year (which is about equivalent to a 10 year old Honda), including F40's as they're 25 years old now. I know that doesn't help on a new Ferrari, but it's part of the cost of living here.

 

You are being presumptuous. I've lived in Arlington and Fairfax for 30 years. If you asked the voters.....they would easily agree to a higher Sales, Fuel or Real Estate tax to get rid of the Car Tax....even if it favored the renters (BTW the owner of the rental property pays the Real Estate tax AND taxes on the rental income). Everyone who pays the Car Tax hates it except its architects. The architects make the same claim about Virginia's Lotto. It is a standing joke in Richmond that Virginia residents believe that 100% goes to education.

Get rid of the Car tax.....raise the others as an neutral offset and while you are at it repeal the stupid radar detector law and you could be our next Governor.

 

I'm not being presumptuous, I'm good friends with a guy involved in politics here in Richmond who explained it to me - he is a large (rental) property owner and explained the purpose - to shift some of the tax burden off of real estate owners and onto those that rent because, well, everyone has a car. It favors his business (he owns roughly 100 houses but only 3 vehicles) but he's not in favor of it as a policy. However, he also knows who peddles the influence in VA and said there's little chance in it changing as a lot of people that hold office also own a lot of real estate...I can get more information from him if you like as he's a lot more involved in policy than I, but it decidedly doesn't favor lower income people as they usually have a car but no real estate.

In any case, that's not the topic of this thread - it's those that attempt to dodge the taxes. I'm not a fan of personal property tax, but I pay it and expect those that live here to pay it as well. I'm all for somebody trying to get rid of it, but good luck...

 

This

 

If your friend had plated the vehicle with Antique Plates, then what would the property tax have been?

I am all in favor of "no tax" on property held for a reasonable time. Cars, boats, homes, etc. If you have owned it for many years, you have paid and paid, over again. At least with cars, you can plate them for occasional use with the antique plates. But a house, or homes?

Anyways, here's an interesting story on a fella from Nebraska, who is moving his collection to Florida:
Mark Pieloch News, Videos, Reviews and Gossip - Jalopnik

Seems I read or heard in another story, they watched his water utility bill(s) for usage, or so rumored...