Virginia goes after Out-of-State License Plates

Come on over to Delaware. The water is fine in this state. Jon in Delaware hating on Virginia law enforcement.

 

There's so much military there, and such a high turnover rate, they could never keep up. A good friend of mine claimed OH residency and had OH plates on his truck for YEARS in VA Beach (even owned a house there), while still active duty. I wouldn't worry about it at all there....

FWIW, YMMV, yadda yadda....

gp

 

Don't forget, Personal Property Tax is due in some counties next week.

 

Thanks for the reminder! Been waiting for the last minute!

 

Most reasonable people who drive do hold a driver's license in the state where they primarily reside. Or at least where they primarily resided for a relatively long time period at some point in the not too distant past. But for people who travel often, have multiple homes or no home at all, military, foreign service, ex-pats, indigent transients, etc. it gets complicated very quickly. Few people keep a daily diary documenting where they've physically been every single hour of every single day. Even most National Security Position holders do little more than document dates and locations they've traveled outside of the US. Because so few people are documenting their exact whereabouts, few people are changing their primary residency for state tax filing or driver's license purposes on an annual basis.

Many (most? all?) states do not permit non-residents to register cars in the state. Registration is a requirement that is usually taken care of when establishing legal residency in that state. Few people are switching their legal residency annually or multiple times a year to comply with archaic laws. This is an area where virtually all states have laws that are in conflict with one another and there is no practical way to comply with all of them. You see, states are greedy and they all want you to be their resident. This is a fight you do not want to take part in!

Laws (and tax policy) are not required to have any basis in reason or reality or common sense. They are often contradictory. And thus compliance with all applicable laws is oftentimes impossible. This is why it's always preferable to fly under the radar and if you do get pinched and have to explain yourself to a government agent or a judge that you have: good legal counsel, a reasonable explanation for your behavior and the documentation (or at least some trustworthy witnesses) to back it up.

 

Doubtful this was anything other than a media campaign scare tactic in attempt to get readers to comply.

 

F*****g Virginia! Constantly seeking new ways to suck money out of the citizens. Is there anything NOT taxed? Our government has gotten so out of control.

 

The car tax isn't new. And if you want nice things you've got to pay for them. Unfortunately a small area of northern VA is heavily subsidizing the rest of the state, but such is life. Don't like it then run for general assembly or pay to elect someone else who shares your view and change the status quo.

 

Well, let's address that.

In addition to the price of the item itself, you pay, when you purchase, a sales tax. There is also the gas guzzler tax. Then, there's property tax. You also pay a tax on fuel purchased.

So, what property tax is is the an asset tax. Which is never-ending, if you own it. Same goes for real property. Now, some in the Government, are talking about taxes based on your net worth. On what basis is it okay to continue to tax the same asset over and over again?

How many levels of taxation are appropriate? And, people do react to taxes and tax policy. They're not stupid, and if they don't feel it's reasonable, they'll do what they can to minimize taxes, which is not illegal.

CW

 

B....but we already paid for them when we bought them?

*scratches head in utter confusion*

 

Would never forget that! May favorite time of the year!

 

Haven't you ever heard of income redistribution and social justice? That's what it is all about taxes are seldom "fair" that is why they are often called progressive taxes. If they were fair the adjective “progressive” would not be necessary since they would be the same for all. Same for social justice, if it were real justice the adjective “social” would not be necessary. Who says people aren’t stupid when they buy into this line of thinking. IMO

 

Correct. Taxes are not "fair". Few things in life are really "fair." Taxes are often arbitrary but sometimes they are based on good public policy. Whatever they are, they are decided by our elected representatives. Or whatever big money special interests and/or "deep state" decide what they should be, that is if you believe in that conspiracy theory stuff.

Progressive is a label thrown around as casually as liberal and conservative. "Fair" is always in the eye of the beholder. There is no scientific method for determining what a "fair" tax should be. It's always a political calculation. I think most would agree that our federal tax code is messed up at the moment. But we're not talking about federal taxes here. We're discussing a specific state tax, which is a different story.

Social justice as opposed to criminal justice. Just because an adjective is used doesn't make it wrong or contemptible. Our society has always been imperfect yet has much opportunity for improvement. It's whatever we choose to make it. But progress is often slow and can take generations for lasting change to take hold. It takes a long time to build things up and only seconds to tear them down.

 

I would say sales taxes are reasonably fair. If you buy expensive goods or a lot of goods you have high taxes if you are poor and don’t your taxes are low. Without getting into the esoteric discussion of what constitutes disposal income.

In CA income taxes are Progressive as are vehicle registration taxes (a Fcar is lighter and uses less road space than an F150 PU but the registration cost is based on the new cost of the vehicle not weight or amount of use. So I would call that a progressive tax. A fair tax might be based on weight since fuel taxes adjust for higher use, unless of course you own an electric car and pay no use tax at all.

Social justice relates to civil justice not criminal (no correlation) and attempts of resolve matters in favor of the most need not what is the equitable under the civil legal system. I guess progress is in the eyes of the beholder – one person’s progress is another’s regression depending on who’s ox is getting gored in the process.

And yes I took Political Science and several other law classes in college. In addition to being tangentially connect with civil law for 40+ years.

 

When I lived in VA, I was told I could register my cars in MD with only a post office box as MD address.

I didn't, because the many people living around northern VA with MD tags were mostly ones who didn't care for their cars and didn't drive that well, either.

The DC area has a large number of dealer tags on cars. Partly because of the transient population, but mostly because of texting while driving: they have to replace cars often.


The "personal property tax" was imposed by the urban counties: FFX, Arl, etc.
The other thing they told me, when I moved to VA, was that the local governments in the DC metro area were all owned by the developers.
So the car tax was to take the load off the developers and put it on the renters.
The State tried to reduce that load on the individual car owners -- before the State government changed hands.

The surprising part is that the VA "personal property tax" was over *four times* the similar "excise" tax charged by "Taxachusetts".
In FFX county, my insurance was higher than MA, also.


Shortly after I moved to VA, I looked at the utter fiasco of the Telegraph road interchange, and then I called the County to complain if my car tax was used to build roads that were trying to kill people.

But I never got there.

I started with the question, "What does the personal property tax pay for?".

They couldn't understand the question.

"It's a tax!", they'd say. "But what does the money pay for?"
They transferred me four times, and nobody could understand the question.
Then they hung up on me.

They since spent seven years creating huge gridlock while rebuilding the Telegraph road interchange ...
... and they made it worse.
Well, with one exception: it's now much easier to get from the beltway to the Huntington Metro station.
So people in those condos on (limited access) Eisenhower Blvd, with their own private beltway entrance (since they blocked Clermont) can get to the metro without dealing with the "beltway block".
But they're still using gridlock to boost housing prices inside the beltway by making it nearly impossible to get past the beltway.


I just got a 2016 personal property tax from FFX, VA.
One problem: I'm in TN.

I can just imagine trying to get that bill remedied.

 

When did you move? Most Virginia counties use a Jan 1st or Jul 1st ownership strike date to determine if tax is due.

 

Indeed I have. And, IMO, it's one of this country's biggest political red herrings. Not to make this a "political" discussion, which, practically everything can be boiled down to. And, it's something that I don't particularly like about this site. Anything "political" gets immediately moved into a pay-to-participate forum?

Personally, I think political discussions should be public. By definition, they impact us all.

CW

 

The bill states for the *year* 2016.

So the theory is that I owe an entire year if I lived there one month?
Or is it just another case of of government "theory" defined as "gimme"?

I'm not arguing that I owe for the months I was there.
But they should know that my title and registration was replaced with TN equivalents, as the VA ones were canceled.
So why bill for the whole year?

I had the same problem with Massachusetts.
Despite the $300 fee for "city recording" of the sale of my home, they kept billing me for "excise" tax for the year after I left.
After about four years, they threatened to have the RMV refuse to renew my MA license -- which had also been deleted four years earlier.

Ever notice that all bureaucratic errors are in the government's favor?

Quite a number of utilities have followed suit.
Almost every time I paid a Verizon bill, they'd send the same bill again, in case I wanted to pay it again.

News flash: Yes, we *can* blame you for trying.

 

Typical bureaucracy run amok. The thing is, I'm betting that their inability to cross-reference data amongst different state agencies has less to do with privacy laws/policies and more to do with IT costs and an inability to recruit top talent that has the vision and the skills to execute. Basically, the only way they can procure IT services at all is to outsource it to contractors, which costs money that the legislature doesn't want to give and someone to manage the process which the government doesn't have. The government has a real shortage of project and program managers to deal with the real need for performance based contract management.

 

As an aside, I'm not sure that out-sourcing is more expensive than in-sourcing, once you factor in all the costs. Contractors can be terminated. Government employees not so much. And, then, there's their benefits packages that last FOREVER. There are, however, likely differences in capabilities and talent levels between public and private sector employees, too, IMO.

CW

 

If you want to have fun try getting a credit when you have paid upfront but have sold or traded the vehicle. I really want to leave this state right but can't, I will soon though. Coming from MD I thought it had to better but not so much.

 

i just can't imagine living in VA. you're being taxed at so many levels and so many intervals, it's basically extortion. if your citizenry is actually establishing fake addresses in neighboring or distant states, maybe you've crossed the line with what they consider just and reasonable.

 

A few years ago the state of VA tried to extort money from my company, they had a hit team go after certain tech companies and claimed that we owed back sales taxes because they claimed that in certain undefined terms that we should be charging tax for services although the tax code does not state that all. Some companies paid, we did not. I was willing to hire an attorney and defend and counter sue and that's when they backed off.

I am really taken back by how awful it is in VA, the government has been screwed up even before we got a dem as governor, now it is a complete disaster. If you have a choice this is not a great state to be in. They are trying to screw small businesses <$100M and citizens on every turn.

 

It used to be much better. I was in Chesapeake in the late '80s and Virginia Beach in the early '90s, and it wasn't so bad, there.

But ArlingGrad county was always a bit off: All the media is distracted by the circus across the Potomac, so there was virtually no media oversight at all, even before the media mergers and editorial shifts.
The WinVote machines gave away FFX county around the time I arrived there, and it's been getting worse and worse since.
But, even before the government shift, I noticed a lack of certain national chain stores in Arl and FFX counties. In DC and other VA counties, but not in the tax hades ones.

I bought a house out of Virginia literally within a week of retiring from the Xtal city job.

 

Just to be pedantic, I suppose (which is what we do in the Law), I don't even know that I'd agree with the word "fake". It's perfectly legal to incorporate in a state under its' laws and acquire assets, thereunder. There is no requirement that those assets be located, however, in that state of domicile of the corporation/LLC/entity.

It is purely VA's efforts to collect tax revenues, based on assets being located within its' jurisdiction, however that conflicts with MT's in this case. I thought we lived in a free country without borders. The fact that these differences in tax rates exists gives rise to the arbitrage opportunity. One State's laws, however, cannot invalidate another's. So, this is probably something that will need to go to SCOTUS to be definitively settled unless VA backs down. Which I think is probably unlikely, due to the precedent that may set for VA owners. I mean, why pay lots more in taxes to VA, when you can pay FAR less in MT? Any rational VA resident can set up one of the LLCs inexpensively and save lots of tax dollars, so why wouldn't they?

I reiterate my belief that the Interstate Commerce Clause supersedes VA's tax laws, however, and on this basis alone, VA's money-grab ought to be declared invalid and unenforceable. But, I am not a Constitutional attorney. Or lecturer, even. Although, I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

CW