virtual PPI | FerrariChat

virtual PPI

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by fatbillybob, Oct 30, 2008.

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  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,222
    socal
    There are always questions on pre-purchase inspections. Potential owners rely too much on a mechanic to give a car a clean bill of health when often even when this snap-shot in time is given there are no guarantees. Potential owners need to get involved in the purchase and this thread is about how to do that. There are lots of smart people here and hopefully they will chime in on their ideas about the homework you should do "before" you even order a mechanic PPI.

    I think there are some good places to start:
    1) read this thread for some government history on your car http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220142
    2) Our sponcer Ricambi is not only one of the best places to get parts for your Ferrari but he has posted on his sight some parts and work shop manuals at http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php Here you can learn about how your car works and test all the little features when you do your test drive like the ASR or suspension modes and even start to have a clue if something does not work. So if you got a suspension light warning on a 456 and took a quick look at the shock actuators and if one had twisted up wires you might just think you may have a bargining chip and you may be a able to fix at home cheap.
    3) read up on typical PPI parts and know how invasive your mechanic is going to go. Having someone say it passes a PPI means nothing. Understand each test in your mechanics PPI. For example know what a leakdown compression test or vaccum tests well enough so when your mechanic gives you the results you know what they mean and can ask meaningful questions.

    Well hope that will get the ball rolling...
     
  2. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Check the title first. Even the best car can screw you over if you don't have a clean title...and the big title check companies will sometimes even catch basic criminality such as hiding wrecks, rolling back miles, stolen car, duplicate title, etc. Purchase title insurance if you decide to buy the car, too.

    After that, you are down to verifying the big 3 items: engine/tranny, exterior paint, and overall interior condition. Going beyond those "big 3" is for more specialized purchases (e.g. collector vehicles).

    One rule of thumb is to *never* buy a car that is deficient in all 3 above (unless you want a project car). Expect to pay more if 2 of the big 3 are golden, and obviously you will be paying top Dollar if all of the "big 3" are perfect.
     
  3. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    The, "I dont have time for the full blown PPI and I didnt bring a compression tester with" test.

    Hot engine (after a spirited test drive, watching for smoke, leaks, noises, proper oil pressure, temps, shifting, steering, cosmetics, etc..), hold the brakes hard. Assuming the engine is running okay (like really decent), select 5th gear and, with the engine idling and without giving it any gas (right foot brake, left clutch, foot off the gas pedal), gently and carefully ease out the clutch to work the engine down to as low an idle it can muster. Feel the motor pulse and watch the tack while you listen carefully. If the engine is good, the pulses will be regular beats and equal in intensity and you should be able to draw it down under 500 rpm. But even without a tach you should be able to sense getting it down to low speed and feeling it thump. If it has a miss or anything wrong with it, youll feel it. If you cant draw it down without it quitting, if it idles unevenly and/or pulses unevenly, you really need to look further.

    This isnt something you need to sit and do for 20 minutes burning the crap out of the sellers clutch and lugging the engine, you should be able to do it for a few seconds and know right away.

    Also pull the oil cap off while its idling and feel over the hole with your hand. There shouldnt be more than baby breath of air against your hand. If its chuffing or blowing (blow by), youll probably feel it in the test above. While the oil cap is off, peek inside to confirm good oiling. It should be oozing all over. (I dont know if 355's have cam cover mounted oil caps, so maybe its impossible to see inside)

    You really should do a compression test followed (only if it "passes") with a leakdown. But the above will rule out 99% of any faults. Seeing how many shops dont even know how to do proper tests and phony results, the above tests can be used to verify the engine is in fact pretty decent or not.

    However, I will NOT pay for a leakdown test on any engine that fails a simple compression test. If it cant make compression, it has an internal defect of the rings or a valve, period, and no amount of leakdown tests are going to change that fact. At this point the leakdown is only to determine the cause of damage. There is no point spending another dime of YOUR money to analyse the problem for the seller. The engine is bad. Until it is disassembled, no one is going to know the full extent of the trouble. Too many heads have been pulled only to see scoring of cylinders, etc., etc., and next you know its a full blown rebuild instead of what started out a simple valve job.

    I repeat, if it wont pass a simple compression test, consider the engine needs a full and complete overhaul and adjust your offer accordingly. The majority of sellers already know the engine is junk, they are just hoping some sucker buys it for full price. Dont be a sucker, there are other cars. If you still want the car even with a questionable engine, and if the seller wont drop the value sufficiently to cover a full overhaul, walk away. If you been reading enough threads about 355's, you already know they arent a car to screw around with and they are not cheap. If there were ever a Ferrari to find a good one and pay the price, its a 355. There arent any cheap ones.
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Make certain that you are in the right mindframe. If you expect a car to be new, then either buy a concours winner there at the show, or else go buy a new car.

    Every other car is going to have flaws. Every one.

    So don't expect perfection and "new" if you aren't paying a new car price.

    Liens can be on a car, too. The title check companies like autocheck.com and carfax.com will catch most liens, but when you walk into the world of used cars you are dealing with...drum roll please...used car salesmen.

    Buying from a dealership puts the dealer on the spot if there is a hidden lien on the car's title. That is *a* reason to pay a little extra for a vehicle at a dealership, as opposed to buying form an individual. But buying from either a dealer or from an individual, you should still purchase title insurance. Let Autocheck or Carfax eat that first $60,000 if they didn't catch a lien and if the dealer is a skilled liar.

    Does the VIN on the car match the VIN in the ad and in the pictures?



    Paul/Artvonne above shows how to test the engine quickly. To test the suspension quickly simply give the car a little gas and then immediately stop, then gas and stop quickly, again. If the nose of the car is bouncing up and down, then your shocks are shot.

    Those tests (and listening for any shifting clunks) cover most of the engine/tranny/suspension big ticket items.

    That leaves paint and interior. For the paint, look for leftover painters' tape under the hood, paint overspray, paint drips, and cracks in the paint...all of which would hint at a cheap repaint.
     

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