VP at GM wants to spin off Corvette to compete with Ferrari

The dealers will not put up with GM removing the Corvette name plate from the Chevy lineup. Chevy dealers are GM's bread and butter in terms of car and truck sales, they will not take away their best showroom magnet. The Corvette spirit does sell "lesser" Chevrolets.

 

I agree. At least, it generates showroom traffic. There used to be wars between the divisions to get at the Corvette, Cadillac was often mentioned as a more logical place for this car.

The Chevrolet rationale was always that it was a halo car for the largest selling division. And the Chevrolet DP was usually considered the most powerful division president.

Irony now is that the Corvette engine may well turn out to be some of the last-ever Caddy V8s.

 

It may very well be the dealers pushing it. The corvette at the chevy dealer is a bit like the phanton(sp) at the VW dealerships.....different customers and different service levels expected.

 

I think for Chevy... Corvettes in the showroom HELPS them sell Malibus and Colorados MORE than Malibus and Colorados hurt the sales of Vettes.

Like the slogan Ford used when the GT40 came out: "A pacecar for an entire company"... they attract the masses into the showroom, then sell them the lower models.

 

Exactly, it is really a reverse bait and switch marketing plan.

No one in the market for a Vette is going to shun one because it came from the same showroom as the Malibu, Colorado, or Suburban. Those that would shun it for those things are snobs that would shun it even if it was its own brand, because it is still a "GM".

 

The next genration Vette will be a mid engine car from the inside information I have. This will be done to keep the price low and afforadable. The transmission has alrady been developed for the car. The car will cost GM about 15% less to build than the current car from what I hear.

 

You are a very funny man!

 

There's a reason Vettes are so much cheaper than a 430. Every road test I've seen/read when they compare them (R&T, MT, etc.) say the Vette inspires fear while the Ferrari inspires confidence. One road test even got a slightly better lap time in the Vette, but they said it was a white knuckle experience they'd rather not repeat, and preferred the Ferrari's stability and sure footedness. It was a much more fun car to drive. HP and straight line times are but one measure of a car.

As for a mid engined Vette, why? It would cost a fortune to develop and would likely take several incarnations to get the bugs out to the point it's even as good as the current model. Vetts are very popular; why fix what isn't broken? Are people going to pay Ferrari prices for a Vette? Why would they when they could buy a Ferrari?

Ken

 

I think the mid-engine rumor flies every time there is a new generation due. There are enough unique parts in the vettes these days that it does make some sense, but tradition is important too and then there is the fact that GM has tried mid/rear engines in the parts without much luck.

 

Development costs for a mid engined vette realy not that great and the big bonus is that it would be a lot cheaper to build. Big development costs are the stamping for the steel bodied cars. Fiberglass/composite car development is 90% cheaper to do.

 

Your first post was really funny because I thought you were just baiting someone with your "inside information". But now I'm concerned that you might be believin' wat you is sayin'...

 

You guys crack me up . This stuff is always inciteful . Many theories .............facts however , that's another story .

 

Fiero took five years to iron the kinks out, by that time its reputation killed it. Five years is not a risk that can be taken by Chevy/GM/Corvette.

 

If the Corvair and Ralph Nader had not nailed the final nail, then the Fiero surely has.

Two more points -

1. If the FRONT engine Corvette Z06 is considered a scary handling car, what makes you think they could make a driveable MIDENGINE?

2. If they were to be spun off, could they even stay in business at this price point? Currently, planning is for the little Pontiac/Saturn sports car line to take up space at Bowling Green; probably to keep costs of the plant in hand. I could easily imagine the costs going to 911 levels if they truly had to exist without the buying, engineering, and marketing arms of G.M. Let alone the amortization of a redesign, if they were spun off with the next generation still in preliminary stages.

 

Yeah! I had a Fiero from 1984-1994. It was a fun car for the streets of Chicago but wasn't really a sports car. It was a small, heavy 2 seat family car. I'm told the 6 cylindar model was somewhat better. The problem with "parts bin" cars like the Fiero is there is no sophistication of the engineering. The challenge is to make it all fit together as opposed to making a well engineered driving machine. That's why I said I thought an entirely new Vette, which a mid engine car would be, would take a while to get right.

Ken

 

It could happen one day...
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My 84 Fiero didn't last a year. When it ran it was great though.
P.S. The new mid-engined Vette will be Wankel powered. Zora lives!

 

If it were not for Ferrari, the Corvette couldn't compete...

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/feb2005/nf20050214_8224_db016.htm

http://money.cnn.com/2000/03/13/worldbiz/gm_fiat/

It would seem the new corvette is a pretty good copy of a 599, just not as nice nor refined, nor as quick.

 

Well actually there are very good reasons for a mid-engine Vette.

With the present configuration (front eng-mid tranny), they have a weight distribution of just slightly above 50% on the front axle. While that is good for steady state cornerning, the lack of weight on the rear axle is a severly limiting factor in acceleration. When they went from the C5 Z06 to the C6 Z06 they increased the engine torque by 20%. You would have thought that they could have made an improvement in acceleration out of the hole with the additional torque available, but 60ft time at the drags are the same for both cars. The reason is that they couldn't put down any more power to the ground, so they increased the first gear ratio to deliver the same rear wheel torque. That is, both cars have the same rear axle torque and accelerate the same while both are in first gear. Now for sure, once the C5Z runs out of first gear and has to shift to second, the C6Z will still be in first (to over 60 mph) and it will be faster, but the bottom line is that the C6Z with 500 hp is very limited in how much power it can put down coming off the line. The same is true in coming off of corners, a mid engine car, with about 55% of it's weight on the rear axle is simply going to be a better car for high speed work, it will be faster off the corners and better able to take advantage of the power. I can also tell you from personal experience with a C5 Z06 that there are times when, if the road isn't totally smooth, that I can break the rear tire loose at full throttle near the top of second gear too.. So having some more weight on the back tires would be a really welcome thing.

It is kinda like trying to put too much power into a front driver, it just doesn't work with anything more than 300hp up there. And so it is with front engine/rear drive cars, you need to be able to put the power down and once you get to 500 hp (and a reasonalby light weight) you just can't put the power down anymore.

So a mid engnie Vette, in today's world of "supercars" actually makes a lot of sense. I'm actually looking forward to it... My personal preference is a mid-engine car, something a bit smaller than the current car with a weight of around 2800 pounds, and 400-450 hp... That would be a hoot.

 

Are you aware of the "launch control" stuff they are said to be putting on the new ZR1? It supposedly relaxes the rear shock upwardly and then clamps down on rebound, so as to make the rear end squat for more traction. There is also reportedly some "magic" in the clutch drop. I think they may have about reached the limit of 0-60 and 1/4 mile with this car in front engine already (for the foreseeable future anyway), due to the effect of future regulations.

While it is true that mid-engine offers some distinct handling possibilities (outside of drag racing) - it is also difficult to engineer and not nearly all of them were very reliable handlers.

 

This is livelier than Corvetteforum.

 

Indeed. ZR-1net seems to be debating the virtue of Gay Cowboy movies.

You think I am kidding? Think again.

Still nothing on the Motor Trend trial balloon.

 

Respectfully disagree,

I agree that I do not know of a corvette getting 35mpg, however, I own 2 vettes (a 99' 6 speed that is stock, and an 86' auto that has headers and an aftermarket intake manifold). I have owned the 99' since new and bought the 86' in 2004 as a daily beater. The 99' will deliver a very consistant 32.5-33MPG if driven at 72mph with the cruise control on reletively flat ground (no mountains). In town the 99' delivers 22-24mpg, however, my town's version of "in town" driving involves lots of highways, and I think it would be closer to 18mpg under "normal" "in town" driving. The 86' still delivers a steady 27-28 mpg on the highway, though it is important to note the car has a 2.59 rear gear, which makes the RPM at 55mph, 65mph, and 75mph literally 1400, 1500, and 1600RPM respectively. In town, the 86' delivers 15-17mpg, though there are a lot of stoplights on my daily commute, as well as 2 on ramps (exercise zones).

 

Not that I am that much of a Vette supporter, but this quote is based on old info...

Here is a quote from Car & Driver track comparo that indicates that any track instability issues with the Vette are long gone...


Then we went to Buttonwillow, where we were expecting the car’s somewhat isolated control feel to hamper its performance. Several of us had driven earlier Z06s at other tracks, where we’d been unnerved by at-the-limit high-speed twitchiness. To our surprise and delight, this Z06 took to the track with real assurance, braking deep into turns with no sign of instability and rocketing out of them on a tsunami of torque — slightly sideways, if necessary. The faintly numb roadgoing mien turned into much clearer feedback during high-intensity lapping, despite the relatively light, quick steering. And although the shifter has comparatively long throws, it did nothing to impede coordination or obstruct our attempts to run fast laps.

We were so surprised by the Z06’s friendly handling that we contacted Tadge Juechter, the vehicle chief engineer for the Corvette, and he told us that, for 2007, the Z06’s shock-damping rates have been trimmed back a little since Jan Magnussen’s epic seven-minute, 43-second lap of the Nürburgring’s Nordschleife, making the car less jumpy at the limit. Bottom line, says Juechter: The car has gotten better.

No kidding. At Buttonwillow you could see the editors recalibrate as they went through the cars, resetting their notions of the Z06’s track drivability. In “The Sports-Car World Cup” [C/D, September 2006], a Porsche 911 Turbo narrowly edged the Z06 for second place in a three-car fight that included a Ferrari F430. The ’06 Z06’s tricky handling was a major reason — if not the reason — for its third-place finish. Now with the new shocks, we’ve changed our tune, and the Z06 edges out the GT3, which many of us prefer to the 911 Turbo.

 

As much as id like to see it happen I can see 100years of Corvette before GM does something like that. There's only one possible outcome, GM gives all rights to Corvette to like Callaway or something like that then they go from there.