VW group could enter F1 now boss quits | Page 2 | FerrariChat

VW group could enter F1 now boss quits

Discussion in 'F1' started by Jackie and bill, Apr 25, 2015.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    I get it: that must be Jean Todt.

    I had a brain fart suddenly.

    Well, I don't know if salvation will come from the Little Napoleon of the Place de la Concorde.
     
  2. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Gregg
    "I laughed, I cried and then laughed smores".
     
  3. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Sincerely, i don';t see the bvenefit of them entering F1.
     
  4. Argosy

    Argosy Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2013
    415
    Piech may have quit, but he and his family still own a sizeable portion of VW group and I'm willing to bet he will continue to rule, just from the shadows.
     
  5. Formula1Fan

    Formula1Fan Formula Junior

    Mar 7, 2006
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    Jerry Schutz
    From a commercial point of view almost any of their brands would be a better choice, but from an aesthetic point of view Bugatti would be the way to go. Bugatti is a piece of racing history that can't be duplicated.
     
  6. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    They did sound glorious though
     
  7. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes sir they did.
     
  8. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    Sorry to nitpick (again, I know...) here William, but you have to remember that Piech left Porsche in 1972, when he understood that he would not be appointed as the future CEO. So in 1972 Ferdinand Piech was already at Audi, where he masterminded the Audi 80, then the Audi 100 project, then the Quattro. It was therefore not under his rule that Porsche became the dominant force in sports cars and endurance. He indeed launched the ball with the 917, but had already left when Porsche became the great name in endurance. And there was always a strong personal aspect of revenge in Piech ambition to control Porsche later.

    Rgds
     
  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Porsche became prominent when it started to have cars able to fight for the outright victory in competition (as opposed to class wins), and that was under Piech, in my opinion.
    Before, Porsche could only expect to win at the Targa Florio or the Nurburgring at best.
    From 1968 onwards, Porsche started to win in the World Sportcars Championship with the 907, 908, and later the 917. Those cars were designerd under Piech's guidance, and Porsche finally broke its duck at Le Mans in 1970, to repeat in 1971.
    Porsche just missed to win Le Mans in 1968, and by 1969 had certainly the fastest car on the track, if not the most reliable.
    I think it's Ferdinand Piech who gave to impulse for Porsche to become the leader in endurance.
    Producing 25 917 managed to turn the FIA regulations in derision and took everyone by surprise at the time; it was a huge gamble where Piech put his reputation at stake.
    The FIA changed its rules 3 years later to ban the 917!

    It was a great loss to motor racing when Piech moved to management instead of staying at Porsche overseeing the racing; I suspect he would have had more surprises in store.
     
  10. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    Yes, I know all that William, of course, no question about what he did for Porsche, but it is also important to stress that he left early: at the begining of 1972 he was already gone. He shaped a lot of things, but left early. Personally, I think he should get also lot of credit for what he did at Audi with the "Quattro".
    Piech decided to leave Porsche at the end of 1971 because he was hoping to be the one selected for being The Successor, and was disappointed not to be choosen to. The man has pride...he was one of the great egocentrics of the automobile industry; perhaps he still is...my guess is that we have not seen the last of him yet.

    Rgds
     
  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't pretend to know everything about Piech, but I wouldn't be surprised if the forthcoming ban of the 917 played a role in his departure. That must have undermined his position in the firm. Piech had convinced Porsche to invest a fortune on it: Weissach was still a small independent car maker then.
    It didn't turn to be such a wise investment, even if the CanAm success brought some consolation.
     
  12. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    It could well be, of course, as that adventure was not cheap by any standard! but on the other hand, as you pointed out, he made them a winning firm in sportscar and build the first steps of their reputation at the premier constructor in endurance.
    I find it hard to believe that he will now spend his time only fishing or whatever, even if he is 78 now...

    Rgds
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes.

    He's been a huge disappointment so far but there are signs of life from the FIA.
     
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    What we have heard from Jean Todt so far has been a deafening silence on most issues.
     
  15. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
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    Piech has always been a fan of motor racing. The other guy currently at VW, not so much. Don't see how Piech leaving is considered a positive thing for the VW Group's racing future...
     
  16. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Who was the HMIC at VW in the 70s that changed over to front drive water cooled cars? I know the beetle had reached its end.
     
  17. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    I completely agree. of all the VW brands owned only Porsche has any racing heritage - Audi has a LeMans but really unless you count the days as Auto Union ( nazi connotations ) Bugatti is the marque with the most F-1, and racing culture.

    I know its not the "real" Bugatti, but I think it would be a huge bump up in prestige for F-1 to have Bugatti back as a team - and then supply Audi & Lamborghini engines to other teams.

    "L'equipe Bugatti Grand Prix" - i Think has a great ring to it!

    the only other thing that would make sense to me is that VW buys Lotus car company - and the F-1 team, and supplies it with a VW group engine.
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I disagree! Bugatti never was part of a F1 championship (created in 1950).

    Bugatti ruled aver GPs in the 20s, mostly with the Type 35, but faded away from the early 30s, in face of Alfa Romeo.
    Bugatti didn't participate in the late 30s, against the Mercedes and Auto-Union Silver Arrows.

    I fail to see how Bugatti could be seen as the most representative make among the VW group.
     
  19. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    I beg to differ my Lord! - check out Bugatti type 251 - raced in the new Formula One series in 1955 - ( albeit one race and did nothing...)

    Bugatti won LeMans in the 30's - I think 37 & 38? - Pierre Veyron ( sound familliar) was the driver. but yes they did not compete against the silver Arrows in the 30s - Ettore died in 47 - and his son before him in 40. basically the war killed off any Bugatti Resurgence.

    As for the most representative Racing marque in the VW stable ? = what other marque has any racing pedigree besides Porsche? - Audi? only in Le Mans and Touring cars. and only in the last 20 years Max.

    Lamborghini - no real racing heritage - some F-1 as engine supplier but that is it.... Skoda? VW?

    Porsche is the only real racing Marque - and that is totally by acquisition - Porsche has a huge racing history, mostly in Sports cars - hill climb etc... its only F-1 Success was with Dan Gurney - 1 GP victory and then 3 WDC as engine builder for TAG/ McLaren.... the last time they entered F-1 as an engine maker - with Arrows was a colossal failure and embarrasment. way too much to lose - with little up side. same frankly for Audi.

    As for WHY Bugatti? - it has nothing to lose. If they are a failure - its not going to be a negative for them... they only sell to the super Rich anyway... if its a success, then they can sell "engineered by Bugatti " editions of their other Marques for a premium... it is simply the lowest risk with the biggest up side.

    Were I them - I'd do the Bugatti F-1 team, and then badge engines either Audi or Lamborghini ( or both ) for customer teams.
     
  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I quite expected you to contest my comment.

    Yes, there was a Bugatti 251, designed by Columbo, driven by Trintignant and raced at the French GP. A complete failure! Better not to mention that! Bugatti had al;ready stopped making cars for almost 8 years then, and was a sub-contractor for the aviation.

    Bugatti's 2 pre-war victories at Le Mans have nothing to do with F1 either.

    If the VW group was to engage in F1, it would only make sense if that was under the VW or Audi badge, because they are the mass produced cars, and that's were the benefit of publicity could be felt. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.

    Porsche already gets good exposure in GT and sports cars (just like Audi).

    Car makers don't enter F1 for sentimental reasons, but to sell cars! I doubt if the benefit of competing (and hopefully winning) in F1 would be felt much among Bugatti or Lamborghini buyers!
     
  21. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    We'll just have to disagree. Audio being beaten by Mercedes is not going to sell many more cars... Ergo why Bugatti is the right team.

    And regardless of when it was successful Bugatti has a much more attractive history than any of the other brands
     
  22. Neonzapper

    Neonzapper F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2008
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    Look for Stefano Domenicali and Jean Todt to have influence for a new tier F2, and that will be Audi's gateway for power unit testing before F1 entry.
     
  23. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

  24. ginge82

    ginge82 Formula 3

    Jul 23, 2012
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    Art Corvelay
    With Piech now gone and many in senior management reportedly in favour of entering F1, I would guess that they are now looking very closely at just how much tech crossover they are actually getting from their LMP1 efforts to their roadcar division and just how much media attention their race wins and drivers actually bring to their brand.
     
  25. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Don't know about Audi but if the FIA is doing something beyond cashing Bernie's checks its a good sign.
     

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