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VW/Porsche serious about F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by pilotoCS, Nov 27, 2021.

  1. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 Veteran
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    May 19, 2019
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    Thomas S. and Jeronimo GTO like this.
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  3. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    21,898
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    Seriously no. Just stay out. The sport doesn't need a damn manufacturer coming in and dictating the rules and regulations.

    F1 has become too big/professional for it's own good. We need passionate small time owners back. Not some idiots who will pack up and leave after 4 - 5 seasons.
     
  4. TurboFreak650

    TurboFreak650 Formula 3

    Jul 10, 2004
    2,212
    Atlanta, GA
    I'd like to see someone come in and knock Mercedes down a notch or two for at least several seasons. It would be no easy or instant task. And as far as going back to small time owners? Too late, that's over forever.
     
    F2003-GA likes this.
  5. xpensivewino

    xpensivewino Formula Junior

    Jan 26, 2008
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    Porsche was, is, and most likely will always be the dominate force in Motorsport. The fact that Audi ran a Porsche prototype with Audi valve covers, doesn’t change their utter dominance of Le Mans. I’d love to see them involved in F1.
     
  6. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    You mean knocking Mercedes down like Red Bull did with Ferrari?

    F1 is for big fish now, not small fry.

    Small teams will only survive as satellites of factory teams.
     
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  8. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
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    After the fake drama TV Pro Wrestling ending of this seasons championship, I'm sure Porsche/Audi/VW will run the other way even if they were considering F1, knowing that F1 is after ratings with scripted drama instead of pure racing will dash any desires Porsche had of considering entry into F1.
     
    Phil~ likes this.
  9. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Interesting to see why Porsche in particular needs such promotion. They sell every car produced and have a winning rich history in racing.

    The world is E not F1. F1 is behind the times as interesting as it is. Porsche best selling machine is not an ICE powered platform anymore in the 2nd most important market - USA. Taycan. They will now build E-SUV's as well. Interesting times. Overall Porsche needs nothing from F1 at all. If they enter then it will still be interesting but what use is spending money on F1 given its market power already. These explorations are very much personality driven by the leadership of VW Group overall.

    The same for Ferrari - they do not need F1 at all. The lineage is without question in other forms of racing if they left F1.

    F1 is popular now. Given the enormous change in motivation for makers of auto's F1 has the least amount of relevance in terms of marketing. Mercedes and others make money without F1. Its just an interesting luxury. I still like F1 but not blind to true relevance.

    My opinion. Hybrid is interesting but not at all the future. Full E is where the shift in manufacturing focus. ICE is being phased out and announcements continue by governments and auto companies.
     
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  10. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ
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    Here we go again. I heard this crap in the late 70's when Stuttgart was going to race at Indy. Never happened. Heard this in the 80's when they were going to run F1. Never happened.

    Stick to what you know Stuttgart. Endurance racing you excell at. Leave the drama in F1 to those that know how to make drama. Ferrari does it well!
     
  11. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,783
    Well, they did Indy and F1 in the end. It's just that it went quite unnoticed.
     
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  13. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,783
    Dude, Audi was running their prototypes before Porsche reentered WEC.

    Let's also remark that little issue about Audi running DIESEL engines vs Porsche's gasoline. Not something you can change with a different valve cover.
     
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  14. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    If history shows us anything, and it usually does, Porsche doesn't get involved in any form of
    motorsport unless they've got a decided advantage in the rules which they may exploit.

    None the less, Porsche's presence in F-1 would certainly be interesting in this current era given the lack of manufactures taking part, hopefully it will be with the addition of a new team or two
    as the grids are pathetically small.

    Yes, Porsche gets in accomplishes what they set out to do and then get out while the getting is good
    (IE: when a new set of rules no longer suits their program). But it makes for some fine drama when
    they set their sights on F-1 again.

    Porsche and Audi are already committed to WEC hypercars for 2023. Remains to be seen if their
    BoD justifies the expense of getting into F-1 as well.

    BHW
     
  15. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3



    Small teams stopped having a chance from 2014.

    Porsche may do what Mercedes did and get their early advantages protected by development freezes.

    Porsche's eFuel may give them extra leverage & advantage.
     
  16. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    BoD??? What that is? (No coffee yet....)
     
  17. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
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    Sep 12, 2004
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  18. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    8,150
    Ferrari,
    Mercedes,
    Aston Martin,
    Renault;
    A full 40% of the cars are from manufacture teams.
     
  19. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    8,150
    Small teams had a chance in the Red Bull -- Vettel era ? No, not really........
     
    DF1 likes this.
  20. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    The last small team winnings are all fluke of circumstance due to weather, crash etc. Small teams are the entire reason for the new budget limits. Assuming that strategy works. The budget limit is a harm to larger teams overall. Toro/Alpha, Williams, HAAS might be able to stay but can they really compete. Aston, Mclaren and Alpine-Renault or Alfa-Romeo could have a chance in near term.

    The best systems and facilities are still withe larger budget top teams. They have front loaded budgets the last 2 years in anticipation of the new rules and budget limit. I think the small teams are still much behind.........we shall see eh?
     
  21. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3


    The regs permitted all teams a fair crack.

    Development freezes didn't kick in until 2014.
    Coincidence or great Mercedes lobbying ?
     
    Bas likes this.
  22. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Yep. Red Bull simply did an incredible job back then. Sure they invested substantial amount of money in the sport, and more than the small teams obviously, but no more than other top teams.

    What I liked about that era is that for the most part, it really was "equal". Can't stop a team from having a better driver or supreme aerodynamics, but the engines where all on par more or less power wise: The Mercedes engine had really good power and a wide powerband, the Ferrari had the most power but used more fuel, Renault had the least but used less fuel and didn't run as hot. Cosworth was actually a really good engine, but became the defacto choice for smaller teams as it was the cheapest engine. Other small teams already had deals in with existing suppliers so no need to switch. Frankly speaking if Red Bull was Cosworth powered 2010-2013 they'd have almost certainly won those titles as well (so long Cosworth also implemented the same hot/cold blowing of the exhaust).

    Had a copy of the 2022 rules existed before 2014, we'd perhaps have witnessed the most amazing era of F1. Instead, the 2014 regs which was supposedly make cars exiting but cheaper ended....well we know how it ended: Ridiculously expensive, rarely exciting and uninspiring noise.
     
  23. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    What about McLaren ? And Alfa Romeo (AKA Sauber)?
     
  24. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Mclaren is a racing manufacturer that now makes road cars.

    Alfa is simply a sponsor of Sauber.
     
  25. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    Read post #11.
     
  26. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Bas
    What does post 11 have to do with what I said.
     
  27. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    19,411
    There are already 6 manufacturers involved in F1, 3 of them outsourcing their engines.

    For some times, the grid has been 20 or 10 teams. I doubt if it could grow much bigger.

    F1 is like a "closed shop", where teams share the proceeds according to a complicated formula.

    Any extra team would have to be accepted by the 10 existing teams, and they could have good reasons to refuse, since their returns would diminish.

    If Porsche or Audi want to be in F1, it will most probably be as engine suppliers, unless they buy existing teams to race under their name.
     

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