Wait til this stuff ages..... | FerrariChat

Wait til this stuff ages.....

Discussion in '348/355' started by Skippr1999, Nov 16, 2017.

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  1. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    #1 Skippr1999, Nov 16, 2017
    For those of you who have had to endure the 355 bashing over the years, I just read this in the 458 section. The aging of these 458+ systems is going to make the 355 look really appealing. And this is only the tranny! Would you rather swap headers and valve guides, or search the entire car for electricals ? I’ll take the 355.


    “The DCT transmission made by Getrag in Germany and used in all modern Ferrari's is the most complex part/system in the entire car. There is not one universal "sensor" that has a problem which can solved by replacement. There are 4 pressure sensors, 4 speed sensors, 3 temperature sensors, 6 position sensors that all have 2 pin electrical connectors, and provide information to the DCT ECU. The DCT ECU controls the function of 17 solenoid valves inside the transmission through three wiring harnesses with 68 wires inside the transmission. There are three external connectors on the transmission housing: two 26 pin connectors, and one 16 pin connector (total of 68 pins, of which only 58 pins are used). All of the wiring/connections/sensors and solenoids live in a bath of 100 degree C oil, and are exposed to severe vibrations and G loads. If just one sensor, connector, wire, solenoid has a problem, then a fault will be set and the transmission may malfunction.
    While earlier production transmissions had wire routing/chafing issues that have been rectified in the later units, any of the later transmissions can and do have issues with mostly speed/pressure/temperature sensors. With time and use, the DCT transmissions are only going to have more problems. This is only the electrical portion of the transmission. Also consider that the transmission has two separate oil/hydraulic systems which must remain separate from each other with associated seals and sealant. Time and heat also take their toll on these components.
    Removal, disassembly and repair of a DCT transmission is not a $4000-5000 bill. Figure at least 30-40 hours of labor plus parts to repair any internal DCT issue.

    If I owned one of these cars, I would either have a warranty or put $20k in the bank for future DCT repair
     
  2. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    #2 Dave rocks, Nov 16, 2017
    Skipp - none of that post will deter me from getting a 458 just like none of the 355 issues deterred me from getting 3 of them ;)
     
  3. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    #3 Skippr1999, Nov 16, 2017
    I hear ya. I was shocked at that list of electrics in the tranny alone. Overwhelming!
     
  4. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    #4 carnutdallas, Nov 16, 2017
    Makes a Gated 355 worth more money in the future


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  5. johnk...

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    #5 johnk..., Nov 16, 2017
    I almost agree 100% except I believe it will make the 360/430 the cars that are more appealing. Even sorted the cost of an engine out for a 355 will continue to rise due to increasing labor cost. I believe 355s have had their run for the time being and have settled in the $50k to $80k range. I expect they will stay there for some time. Yes, the electronics and the DCT will deter purchasers of used 458s and 488s, but the 360 and 430 seem to be the more likely choice. But in reality, non of these cars seem like keepers to me.
     
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  6. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    #6 Dave rocks, Nov 16, 2017
    My 98 F1 GTS will be pried from my cold, dead hands, John ;)
     
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  7. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 WATSON, Nov 16, 2017
    COOL! That should drop prices. Spread this all over the internet! PLEASE!

    And we all know the 355 F1's are POS's too right? I mean I only get 3,500 miles or so each year on mine. Can you imagine the costs of swapping an accumulator bulb on the F1 solenoid assembly pack? Or a new pump motor? OMFG the agony! They are just ticking time bombs! ;)

    458 for me in three years. Hope they develop more internet problems before I buy one. This forum will have answers. I guarantee it.

    :) :) :)
     
  8. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 WATSON, Nov 16, 2017
    Like Dave I doubt I will sell mine unless I can find a GTS...or he sells me his :)

    Quality, sorted 355's always carry a nice price. Fast forward 5 years and I think they will be doing quite well. Better than a 360 for sure.

    But you aint gonna retire by holding any modern age, high production Ferrari's. That's why people really need to just go drive them more.
     
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  9. Nader

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    #9 Nader, Nov 16, 2017
    Thinking about internal combustion engines, with all of their systems that require their own coolants, radiators, pumps, gaskets and filters, sensors, multiple computers, miles of wiring, etc., is depressing.

    Then again, think about how much more complicated your iPhone is compared to the first cell phones. I’m surprised modern smart phones are as reliable as they are.
     
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  10. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    #10 Skippr1999, Nov 16, 2017
    Dino and 328 are so simple........
    355 is so exhilarating and beautiful .....
    CS words cant describe....

    All are keepers and better than virtually anything else that’s reactively affordable.


    458.....beautiful and likely worth the complications.
     
  11. SoCal1

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    #11 SoCal1, Nov 16, 2017
    Moore's law will catch us upon the Stooge end of repairs. It always has.

    You want to try repair my self driving car? maybe in 10 years it will be simple.

    458 will be a hot rod just like the 355 IMHO :)



    xo

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  12. johnk...

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    #12 johnk..., Nov 16, 2017
    I'll probably keep mine as well. But that's not what I mean by "keeper". I was referring to value. As Watson said, these cars aren't a retirement fund. In all likelihood, in 10, 20, 30 years you will be lucky to get you initial investment back. Forget maintenance, insurances and other costs of ownership.
     
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  13. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    #13 taz355, Nov 16, 2017
    If I wanted a ferrari for investment i would buy a la ferrari.
    I bought mine to enjoy as all should.
    As Dave said I did not buy i for an investment nor will the next one. I personally believe mine will allways be worth more than i paid but not if you included all the upkeep. That being said i will allways get a better return than my daily drivers.

    Not sure for the next one as I am starting to like some of the features off the 488 like a pit lane knob. How many cars have one of those.

    That being said I think all will agree that the Best Ferrari made is the one or ones you own.
     
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  14. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #14 yelcab, Nov 16, 2017
    So who is driving their cars this weekend?
     
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  15. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    #15 Dave rocks, Nov 16, 2017
    I'm not because I have no life and the weather sucks :)
     
  16. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 WATSON, Nov 16, 2017
    This weekend? I took mine to meetings today
    Heavy rains washed the salt off the roads yesterday.
    33 degrees for a high today
    Not many more days are left for me.

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  17. SoCal1

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    #17 SoCal1, Nov 16, 2017

    Hell yeah I'm due for a washing also. My front lower bumper is wasted. Just got another challenge bumper I will paint and just swap them out as they seem to last 1 season which is really good for how I drive. That yellow duct tape holding it together looks racey car in a NASCAR way LOL

    :)
     
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  18. steved033

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    #18 steved033, Nov 17, 2017
    likely, because i'm mad I didn't go last weekend.

    sjd
     
  19. PhilB

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    #19 PhilB, Nov 17, 2017
    I think the 360 is a "transition" platform, and won't retain value. Performance is identical to the 355, but it doesn't look nearly as heartbreakingly beautiful as the 355, and the performance of the cars after the 360 reached an entirely different level.

    Also, no one seems to complain about the engine out on the TRs, I don't think that really factors into anyone's purchases decision.
     
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  20. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    #20 Mitch Alsup, Nov 17, 2017
    But everyone says the DCT is the fastest way to go--or is that go back to the service guy for another try at fixing it...........
    I will stay with manuals.
     
  21. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    #21 Skippr1999, Nov 17, 2017
    Me. Took my Dino out today. Beautiful Southern Fall day.

    Also, Cars & Cappaccino on Sunday
     
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  22. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 WATSON, Nov 17, 2017
    How is that picture not your avatar? The little guy up front is awesome.
     
  23. emac

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    #23 emac, Nov 17, 2017
    Almost drove the 355 but the NSX was easier to get out and the top was down on the 355. After a thread in which I was bragging that I had my top working perfect, I didnt feel like taking the chance that the top wouldn't go up and having Watson find out!! So, I added some Stabil instead.
     
  24. 97 Spider

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    #24 97 Spider, Nov 18, 2017
  25. PaulK

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    #25 PaulK, Nov 18, 2017
    I'm not driving mine either, but its almost out of oil, needs to be serviced, the weather is crap, oh... and I am a sissy.
     
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