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Want to collect a Ducati, which one?

Discussion in 'Motorcycles & Boats' started by yelcab, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    I no longer ride, but I did own two Ducati while I did ride, a Paso 750 and a 998 Superbike. I don't have the itch anymore to carve canyons but I would like to own a beautiful work of art that I can look at, touch, wax, and feel good about. Problem is I don't know which one. Shoulda kept that 998.

    So, please suggest something good to buy.
     
  2. 500drvr

    500drvr Karting
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  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Yes, very nice. There is one for sale in my area for … $50K... gulp!
     
  4. 500drvr

    500drvr Karting
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    Yes. They sold for $72,500 new. I hope they go up in price eventually. Meantime, I’ll just wax it.​

     
  5. Wade

    Wade Two Time F1 World Champ
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  6. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Your should buy a 996R or a 998R but a 916SPS ('97 or '98) would also be good.

    The Desmosedici (D16RR) is an interesting bike but they're not actual MotogP replicas (they're completely different in design and layout than any MotoGP bike Ducati ever made) but they're styled similarly to the MotoGP fairings of the period. The engine is very neat and sounds great, though. They can also be highly problematic if you ride it (early ones are prone to broken timing gear and a host of other issues.

    If you want something newer, the 1199 Superleggera and 1299 Superleggera are great bikes. Hope that helps.
     
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  7. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Karting

    Dec 22, 2019
    78
    Homosassa, FL USA
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    Ian Joubert
    I'd go for a 916 ... real step up from the 851 superbike predecessor. Older at this point, collectible, and obtainable.
     
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  8. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Karting

    Dec 22, 2019
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    Ian Joubert
    I just bought a 1993 CBR900rr, first year, in Red White Blue color scheme. No pics, don't know why, sorry.
     
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  9. 500drvr

    500drvr Karting
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    Where do you get your information on the D16RR? Do you own one? Speak from first hand knowledge?
     
  10. vraa

    vraa Formula 3
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    Mr. A
    I have a 1998 Ducati 916 and unfortunately I changed the fairings from OEM to CF and didn't keep the old OEM fairings

    You live and learn

    I try to ride it at least once a week, I'd rather ride than just look at the bike
     
  11. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    I own twelve rare Ducatis, including some team race bikes. Other than a couple of zero mile ones, they all get used regularly. I did own one briefly when I bought a collection from a guy to get a couple of Ducatis that I wanted but I sold it. I have a fair number of friends with D16RR's and have been through the trials and tribulations with a few of them so that I guess yes, that's first hand. These issues are not a secret and I would think that if you own one and use it, you know all of this. Many of the early ones had to be rebuilt. Ducati was aware of this and made changes as production went one, which is why the later ones (around 700 to the 1500) have different engine internals.

    If you're talking about how do I know that it's not anywhere near a MotoGP bike, well that's not a secret either. I'm a supplier to Formula One and I do some work with MotoGP and it's sort of a joke when people say that the D16RR is a MotoGP bike for the road.

    If you don't believe me when I said that either, you can read the following. Kaming Ko, who bought an ex team MotoGP Ducati had this to say:

    "When you look at a World Superbike, which I have, they’re like a production bike on steroids, but it visually looks the same. When you look at a MotoGP bike, there’s not one piece that looks anything like any bike Ducati makes.

    I happen to have a D16RR — it’s not even close. The D16RR has a trellis frame. This bike has a carbon fiber neck attached to the engine. There are sensors galore. Nothing comes close to a MotoGP bike.

    The one detail that stood out to me is the swingarm position. I cannot believe where the swingarm mount is. It’s almost in the center of the motorcycle — there’s not anything like it. This gives the swingarm the length it needs to provide more mechanical grip and less chance to wheelie, while keeping the same wheelbase. Mechanically, the swingarm position is what jumped out at me."

    I hope that helps.

    Again, if someone is looking for a Ducati to collect, they should buy one of the homologation bikes that homologated a world championship bike. My picks fo the best bets are the 916SPS (NOT a regular 916, limited number, homologated the 996 Desmoquattro motor and new internals), the 996R (500 made, homologated the deep sump, sand cast Testastretta motor and smooth sided fairings), of 998R (700 made, homologated the new Testastretta dimensions).

    Anyway, there are more but this is a good start. I can post pics of some of mine if someone needs but these are all pretty searchable.
     
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  12. 500drvr

    500drvr Karting
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    You’re obviously an expert. When I bought my DR16 it was advertised an a replica of the 2004 motor GP bike. Same frame, suspension, display, and engine albeit de-tuned for longevity. You’re the first person I’ve heard saying it’s nothing close to a GP bike. I not disagreeing with you, just would like to know the differences since you know more about it than I.
     
  13. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    #13 sherpa23, Jan 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
    I'm far from an expert but I do have experience so here's what I'll say:

    1) A lot of people billed it as a MotoGP bike for the streets. You're not the only one who says that. They styled it exactly like that bike for a reason and many people think they're the same. It's a neat bike and I think they're cool but they're not close to a MotoGP bike. Look at Kaming's quote and he owns both a D16RR and a Ducati MotoGP bike. He said there's nothing about it that's MotoGP.

    2) Ducati tried to replicate the Desmosedici dimensions as much as possible for a street bike engine and they did a good job but the two motors don't share a single part, not even an engine case. On the WSBK bikes and their homologated street bike counterparts, even things like Corsa and RS engine cases and other parts are swappable.

    I am not saying that the WSBK bike parts and the homologated street bike parts are the same (usually other than reservoirs and some bolts, they're not) and I'm not saying that every part is interchangeable. But a lot of the parts are interchangeable and many of the dimensions are shared. That's not the case with the D16RR and the 2004 MotoGP bike.

    3) All Ducatis of that era had trellis frames. It's a Ducati trademark. But again, the frame dimensions and swingarm mounting points are really quite different between the 2004 MotoGP bike and the D16RR. Not only can they not interchange anywhere near possible but the dimensions of the parts are very different. Again, the WSBK bikes and their homologated street bike counterparts, even the frames and swingarms are entirely interchangeable (minus the key mount and the fuse block mounts, etc.).

    4) It's a very cool bike and was a neat exercise by Ducati. If you like it, you should love it. It's not a MotoGP bike and not any kind of homologation bike but that doesn't make it not a cool bike. It's one of the neatest sounding Ducatis ever, especially with the GP7 exhaust upgrade.

    If you want me to get super nerdy I can post pics and illustrate the difference between one of my team bikes from SBK and the street bike that homologated it for racing. But it's way nerdy and probably pretty boring to most.
     
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  14. Wade

    Wade Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Great info, and no matter how technical it's never boring. Quite the opposite actually!
     
  15. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Karting

    Dec 22, 2019
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    Ian Joubert
    Paul Smart ;)
     
  16. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    You know, thinking about this some more, it’s a bit more money but you may want to try to get a bike from one of the teams.

    This gets a little tricky because many alleged ex team bikes are nothing more than a mix of race parts and street parts slapped together and then they’re not really collectible. However, if you have some connections and some people who truly know what’s what, you can get genuine ex team race bikes, sometimes even with some history.

    Here are some pics of my 1996 ex Ferracci AMA SBK championship 916/955 Corsa. It was Alessandro Gramigni’s and was the on Ducati race winner that year (2 rounds: Road America and Brainerd). Per Ferracci’s and Ducati’s agreement, many of the components are from the previous years WSBK team so it has Fogarty’s swingarm, Corser’s forks and tripled, and John Kocinski’s rear shock. The engine is rebuilt but it’s intact from its racing days, which is neat. It has real collectability and will always remain something special.

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    Conversely, this is one of my track bikes built from a lot of team spares and other nice parts. A classic “bitsa.” It’s essentially a 996RS but with a frame modified to 916 Corsa specs (but not numbered as such). It has a heavily dialed 748R motor (homologated for World Supersport Series) and is one of the best performing and overall riding bikes I have. I’m sure a few people would like to buy it but it’s not really collectible. It’s just a great bike.

    However, I’m sure someone unscrupulous could try to sell it as a real ex team bike when it’s not.

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  17. mikesufka

    mikesufka F1 Rookie
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    Sherpa23 -

    Can you educate a Ducati novice ? Where would you start looking for a 996/8 R ? How much for a low mileage and mint one? What's the maintenance on something like this and are they reliable - could you drive them a few times a month in the summer and store them in the winter ?

    Thanks in advance.

    MDS
     
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  18. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    #19 sherpa23, Jan 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020

    That's a good question, Mike. When I looked for mine, I posted ads everywhere, including here. I ended up getting a zero mile 996R from a guy in the Northeast who bought it new from SeaCoast in New Hampshire new and just never used it. Since then, I bought a European 996R from an old doctor with about 11k miles on it (18k km) and ride that regularly. It might be my favorite Ducati to ride in the canyons and mountains. I also have a 998R that came as part of a collection that I bought (really to get the 998R). They are definitely out there and they pop up but they're not easy to find sometimes. And then like 5 come out of the woodwork so there you go.

    Here's a basic tutorial on what you need to know and I'll try not to get too stupid with this. There are two batches of 996Rs and it's worth noting. The first 350 are numbered bikes all sold on the internet. None are USA bikes. The last 150 (which are better bikes because they updated the engine internals from the first 350) are not numbered. This is the batch that the 60 USA destined bikes are from (not all 60 made it here). Interestingly, my Euro 996R is marked as the last 996R produced where I would have suspected that it would be a US bike.

    In the US, they had to be sold as race bikes. The frames are marked with "competition use only" decals and they came with no lights or mirrors or any of that. There is a vinyl sheet over the holes for the rear taillights and the front have light block offs. However, the did come with titles and they did come wired so all you had to do was walk over to the dealer counter and order the lights and mirrors, signals and kickstand and put that on there (same with the 998R except you needed a new rear tail section as well). The reason for this is that the previous homologation bike, the 916SPS, was sold as a street bike but with the stickers and you had to sign a paper saying that you wouldn't use it on the street (wink wink, nudge nudge). Well obviously people did so the EPA said they had to be race bikes for the 996R and 998R and that's how Ducati got around that.

    Of the two, the 996R is by far the more significant. It homologated the Testastretta motor that Troy Bayliss won the WSBK title with and it is the first bike to get the "R" designation (which was worlds different from the S back then and the only modern equivalent is the Superleggera designation). It had all carbon bodywork minus the tank and nose and was the first road bike to get a deep sump sand cast motor. The 998R is identical with a couple of exceptions, the most notable being that they changed the bore and stroke. They made 200 more 998R's.

    They are great bikes to use. If you get one with more than 100 miles, you should use it regularly. They're not expensive to maintain and they're quite reliable. Other than my zero mile 996R, I ride the other ones regularly. HP-wise, the 998R has a bit more power but I prefer the 996R more. It's just an amazing riding bike. Both of these are much smoother to ride than a 916SPS, although an SPS is a very beasty and thrilling 916 gen bike to ride. After using my 916SPS on the road for a few years, I put on the correct Ducati Performance track bodywork and prefer to use it on the track these days because the 996R is just a better all around road bike and that sees more use on the road.

    Prices are kinds of all over as they don't come up for sale often. A zero mile 996R sells in the $60's or more, although a couple that were stored very poorly and were quite rotten internally sold for $40's recently. With some miles and great condition, a 996R is in the high $30's to low $40's and the 998R is about $5k more than that. If it needs to be brought up in condition, the prices vary wildly. I hope that helps.

    This is what they look like as delivered in the US and I have kept my zero mile 996R exactly in this condition/state.
     

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  19. 500drvr

    500drvr Karting
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    I drank Ducati’s cool aid! Still a cool machine.

    JR
     
  20. mikesufka

    mikesufka F1 Rookie
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    Thanks for the info - interesting read.

    MDS
     
  21. adc

    adc Karting

    Feb 1, 2009
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    Not a Ducati but just came across this cool bike.




    Dave Sorkowto AHRMA SWAP MEET (Classifieds)
    January 2 at 12:42 AM ·

    1990 Yamaha Ow01
    $23,500
    85602
    1990 YAMAHA OW01 FZR750R.

    9800 miles, (15k in Kilometers). Completely stock. Arizona titled and plated. This bike has seen most of its miles on the street and a few track days early in its life. Never damaged, all original paint and body pieces. If you know bikes, you know these are extremely rare. Looking for a good home for this unicorn. Located in Sunny,Dry, Arizona for the last 27 years.

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    +10
     
  22. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Karting

    Dec 22, 2019
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    Sweet !!! ^^^^^^^^^^^
     
  23. 500drvr

    500drvr Karting
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  24. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    12,373
    Damn! I'm in Tucson this week and that thing is not far away. I grew up with the OW-02 as my dream bike, but the OW-01 is liked more I think.

    The 996/998R and OW-02 was all I thought about in high school.
     

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