My car still has following problem after many visit to the garage. lacking power at low rpm popping in carb and exhaust 4 liters of water a month oil in water impossible to shift from 3rd to 2nd gear unless I double de-clutch I am now convinced that I need to rebuild the carbs and the engine, and perhaps the syncro. Do I need to order these parts individually or do they come in kit set? Is "www.ferrariowners.com" still one of the best place to order my parts? Do they sell original parts from 30 yrs ago, or are they upgraded with modern material? This is my first rebuild, I will appreciate all your advice. Thanks!
There is probably more to these events than you've typed, but before spending 5 figure$ on a major teardown, wouldn't it be prudent to have a compression test, a leakdown test and an oil analysis performed to get the health of your engine better defined?
Sorry, but rebuilding a Ferrari engine isn't quite like doing a Chevy small-block. Parts aren't generally sold in kit-form. Some are NOS some are aftermarket some are unavailable (not uncommon). There are a number of sources including GT Car Parts, Ricambi, Dennis McCann, PartsSource, TRutlands. You might need just a head gasket and bearings (water in oil = bad). It is entirely possible that the crank is worn, will need to be ground undersize (find right bearings FIRST) and the rods need reconditioning and new ARP bolts (or nuts at least I NEVER re-use the castle nuts these cars came with). Pistons, Rings, Cylinder bores all need to be inspected/measured and ? Heads need to be looked at (leak tested) probably a valve job maybe new valves and guides. Then there's all the other things like timing chains, guides and tensioner,oil pump (remember that water + oil) and water pump (a separate little project in itself). Other than the water + oil problem, carbs and ignition are probably a lot of the problem. Clean carbs (maybe rebuild kits) and return to spec. Distributor needs to be refreshed, advance curve checked on a distributor machine. The written documentation available is sort of a suggested starting point. An understanding of Italian can help. You get to figure a lot out as you go based on experience. None of this is bad work if you know how but it's expensive and time consuming. Detail is everything, you don't want to do it again. The gearbox probably needs more than a synchro. You'll need to disassemble it and check which bearings, seals, synchros and other gizmos are needed and then try to find them all (bring money, large box preferred). Then put them all back together and hope it shifts at least as well as before. I've had a lot of coffee already today. This is just a bit to think about. I'd start by trying to identify where the water is going in if possible. You might get lucky. If you need to do a full rebuild be ready for a pretty long, expensive project. Do it right, in the long run it's cheaper than cutting a lot of corners.
Ray- If I recall correctly you are located in Hong Kong. I think that you have had a variety of problems and have had difficulty finding anyone locally that knew much about Dino's. I would suggest you have the engine pulled & ship it to Superformance in the UK. They rebuild engines all the time and they are absolute experts. Ask for Ron or any of the guys. In the long run it will be faster,cheaper & much more expertly rebuilt than any of your other options. They are absolute pro's and know the cars inside & out. Good luck
Water in the oil suggests head gasket. Lousy idle and popping and banging suggests ignition and/or valves. Do compression and leakdown tests. I'd pull the heads before I pulled the engine and did a complete teardown. Mileage figures into bearings, pistons, transmission. Transmission problems could be lousy alignment. Check that first. You have to find a mechanic who will experiment or do it yourself. There are lots of stories here (including mine) about rebuilding a Dino engine and adjusting the transmission. Take a look. Parts are fairly easy to find on the phone. Best to talk to many folks. Internet shopping is too sterile. You learn nothing but the price and the part number. Good luck. John
Done valve clearance not too long ago, didn't spot any problem there. The mechanic said cylinder #6 is fairly low on compression and spark plug #6 looks ugly all the time. The carb looks really dirty... Sorry but what is a leak down test? Thanks!
A leakdown test involves putting air pressure (from a hose) into the spark plug hole, with the piston at TDC and observing where and how fast it leaks out. Sort of like a compression test but will tell you if it's the rings (air coming out crankcase) or the valves (air in exhaust or intake ports). There is a special gizmo for this. Basically a pressure regulator, a couple gauges and a hose with a spark plug type fitting. It's about $50 to purchase here. Sounds like #6 might have an issue (rings? valve guides?) If the carbs are dirty (especially inside where you can't see) that could be a lot of your problem. Rebuilding Weber carbs is not really difficult (not for a beginner though). If this is something you can do (be realistic) get a good Weber carb manual and rebuild kits. Disassemble CAREFULLY and keep track of every part (take pictures as you go).
2NA is right on leakdown test. Snap-On has a calibrated box that gives you a numerical value but basically you want to find out where the compression is being lost. Pressurize the cylinder at top dead center (put car in top gear and apply parking brake). If air comes out of exhaust, exhaust valve is bad, if comes out carb, intake valve is bad, if comes out dip stick, rings are bad. A compression test should show 160+ psi. If any lower, pull the heads, valves need work. Water in oil says head gasket is bad. Valve job is not a big deal and heads can be pulled in US version without any problem. Might have to loosen front motor mounts in other versions. Weber carbs last forever. Only need cleaning and setting float level per the book. Only thing I have replaced in 140,000 miles is gaskets on banjo fuel fittings. Never use a hard tool to clean jets. Air and nylon fishing line work just fine. Be sure to check the distributor advance mechanism. The weights need regular lube or all kinds of strange things occur. Timing goes all to Hell and valves get burned. The engine is straightforward and if a good mechanic has the book, maintenance is straightforward. The Wallace 1976 English translation of the workshop manual is excellent. Good luck. John
Ray, give it a go. It is very complex and quite expensive but our passion and care for these little gems always requires some amount of means and dedication. Go slow and do your car justice. Have fun doing it and find graditude at achieving what only a choice few will ever experiance.
Update: The compression test result: cylinder#6 : 140psi cylinder#5 : 150psi Cylinder#1-4 : 170psi The mechanic didn't perform any leak down test because he is pretty sure there is a leak in the head gasket and the leak down test might cause more leaking.
Looks like the front head needs to come off. It's possible that your head gasket is leaking between cylinders 5 & 6 (both compression problems related). Pull the engine (I don't think you could get the front head off "in the car") and see what you have. It's possible that you might be able to avoid a complete teardown. You won't know until you dig into it.
If money and time is no object, pull the engine. In Santa Barbara that costs $3,000 to $4,000 for labor to pull and put back in. Takes about 3 days to pull and longer to put back. I did get my front head off my US version with about 1/16" to spare. Fixing the valves and guides were easy machine shop projects. New gasket was easy. Studs were fine and I drove the car another 50,000 miles before more work was needed. Only 4 bolts hold the engine down and loosening a pair should allow enough tilt to handle any interference. Could even take out the rear rubber bushings temporarily. Should be an easy fix. Go for it. If you pull the engine you will be cought up in the "as long as it is out, why don't we rebuild the..." syndrome and there is no telling where that can go! John
I would highly recommend pulling the engine and at least overhaul the cylinder heads. Get rid of those sodium filled exhaust valves before the following occurs: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125032 I would go ahead with the cylinder leakage test. It isn't going to get any worse than it is now. You may find other possible problems. How many miles (kilometers) are on your car?
I don't think you can attribute that failure to the sodium filled valves. With the bent rod and the piston in pieces I would think this was a case where the valve was collateral damage. From the looks of things I would suspect it happened at the top end of the rev range as well. Alfa Romeo has used sodium valves in all its engines at least back to the late fifties that I can speak of which is millions of motors. No evidence of a problem there. Cheers, Mark
