Wanted: 512 BBi

Widen your choice to include a carb car... the sound and throttle response is to die for....

Plus, BBi have awkward metric wheel sizes, and tyres are hard to find and expensive.

 

why only an 84? tires for the metric wheel are expensive but by no means hard to find.

 

Don't know if you consider this low mileage, but it fits the bill otherwise...

http://philvilleusa.com/text?PageName=512BBi

 

You should consider any BBi. The carb versions really sound nice, but do not have the drivability that the injected cars have.

I went through this process earlier this year, and ended up with an 83 BBi. Low mileage should be anything between 12,000 and 24,000 miles. Anything less is questionable. Have a PPI done by a Ferrari mechanic in the area that has nothing to do with the seller. The factory metric rims can be replaced by nice aftermarket rims/tires, but the originals really look good.

The 84 BBi that pcord sent to you looks really nice, especially since it supposedly had its major service ($8500) done. Assuming you like the tan interior.

 

I agree about the noise, but I would have thought the BBi would have better throttle reponse.

 

I went through the same thing in the Fall of 2001. I drove two 365GT4/BBs, three BB512s and two BB512is and ended up getting a BB512i for several reasons. To me, the BB512i felt faster, especially accelerating from a dead stop. And, when driving a car that is basically a toy, how it feels is the most important thing as I will not be racing it anyway. The superior driviabilty of the BB512i was also important to me as I have been through the carb woes with my old 330GTC and 400GT five speed and would perfer not to go through that again. As far as the cost of TRXs are concerned, I bought four new ones from Coker Tire for a little more than $1000.00 I believe which is cheaper than the tires on my M5. And, at 5,000 miles a year will likely last me more than 5 years. I recommend the BB512i, but all three of the Boxers are great cars IMHO.

 

If the carbs are in good shape and in a reasonably original configuration, you shouldn't have any driveability problems. Mine starts right up, hot or cold, and doesn't tend to foul plugs or anything else.

Of course, I just had my carbs rebuilt this summer, so maybe that's a factor.

I tend to think that a combination of hokey federalization schemes and lack of driving cause many of the complaints about driveability in carb cars.

 

if anyone thinks a BBi drives better than a carb car, they are seriously mistaken.

Granted, it's very common for carb cars to have been badly set up or have some kind of problem, but if even close to running correctly, a carb car will leave a BBi behind. It has so much more throttle surface area it's not funny.

BBi have good torque and drive nicely, but a BB carb is a much more aggressive beast.

 

Well, the two BB512is I drove did drive better than the two 365GT4/BBs and three BB512s I drove when I was looking in the Fall of 2001.

 

Since you asked...I have one..it's an 83.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/ferrariads/showproduct.php?product=113&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

Let me know if you have any questions

Steve
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You're kidding ... surely?

Either, you've had a massively bad run of luck with badly prepped carb cars, or your BBi's were modified, or your interpretation of what's good and bad is quite different to majority opinion.

A well tuned std carb car has no flat spots and is just the sweetest sound and endless pulling power. They are sensitive to tyre pressure and alignment to be sure the steering isn't too weighty, and the 365 has a heavy cable clutch.

But a 512 Carb is sublime....

 

No, I'm not kidding. And while I agree that the carb Boxers sound great, I still prefer the FI ones for many reasons. The FI intake runners and plenum look better than the carbs too IMHO. And, most of the magazine tests I've read as well as Ferrari Spa. itself indicate that the BB512i is the fastest of all Boxers except for top end where the BB512 wins out by a few extra mph. The only place I have seen it said otherwise is in anecdotals from carb Boxer owners, which I consider like cam belt failure stories...everyone has heard of one but few can point to any specific car or owner.

 

I have no idea if the new owner would want to sell the car. Let me give him a ring and see. You never know...shoot me a pm with your contact info and I'll let you know what I find out

Steve

 

Look, I'm really happy you like the BBi more, that's great. yes, they do have some user friendly advantages over a carb car, but with regards to performance, the engine of a carb car breathes so much better.

I've serviced, tuned and driven all the boxers, about 7 or 8 different 365, at least 15 different 512 carb and maybe 9 or 10 different BBi. And of course I've driven good and bad examples of each, but when all is healthy, the Carb cars out accelerate and perform a BBi in real terms.

It's mainly a physics thing... 12 port sized throttles work better than 2 small throttles. That, and the weight difference.

 

Never tried a carbed car, but there is a huge difference in performance on a bbi depending on exhaust, air temp, and mixture. On the right day thyre great, if its hot and humid, running rich they are lethargic and slow. Had a carbed countach, it waqs slower down low.

 

i saw the blue car in person...it was ok. repaint was ok...if not a repaint, then weak factory work. interior was nice enough. it was however very well turned out mechanically and tom jones is to credit. tom is very, very focused and talented.

 

I can only comment from my personal experience and what Ferrari Spa itself published which both indicates that the BB512i is the fastest accelerating of the three Boxer models with the BB512 having the highest top speed. From what I've read the 365GT4/BB is the heaviest of the three with the BB512 and BB512i having almost an equal weight. Ferrari must have known that FI made for a faster Boxer too as it used a Lucas FI system in the BBLM race cars rather than Webers. And I'm not sure that 12 carbs vesres 2 throttle bodies always makes for a faster car. There are a lot of cars with only one throttle bottle that are much faster than any of the three Boxers. But, the wonderful sound of the Webers may make you feel you're going faster!

 

i agree w/ frank. i drove all iterations of boxers as well when i was looking. i too chose the bbi. all tests indicate the bbi being the quickest to 60 mph and 1/4 mile.

that said, the carb car may be faster in a 80-120 roll on but is not as quick as the bbi.

now the lucas slide valve fi comparison may not be fair as it is a bit more aggressive than the cis.

undeniable is that the carb cars do sound racier...no question!

 

Please check the inventory list for Motorcar Gallery of Ft. Lauderdale.

http://www.motorcargallery.com

BHW

 

The 365's are by far the lighter cars, published weights in that era are a crock from Ferrari, sports exhausts/tuning make a lot of difference, BBLM use the weber carb bodies with injectors welded into them, BBi only had injection to keep tightening emmissions legislation, all Boxers are great!

 

All Boxers are great but the published weight from the factory and FNA are

365BBs 2724lbs
512BBs 3084lbs
512BBi 3800lbs


Carb Boxers have high lift cams, 12 throttle bodies with a direct path to the heads, CIS BBis have 2 throttle bodies and a restrictive intake plenium that routes fuel the long way plus they use weak CIS cams.

Carobu engineering has a dyno test of a stock 512BB engine and it pulls around 360 hp confirming the factory numbers, their tests on the 512BBi engine shows they make less than 340hp, Carobu also stated the BBis run out of power around 6000rpm vs the carb cars pull to 7000+, if you don't believe me call and ask them which motor has higher horsepower and torque in their testing. Ferrari was reluctant to go to CIS in their flagship car that held the top speed record for a production car a till a full year later than the 308s.
Some seem to be equating the move to CIS as an improvement in performance similar to the carb 308 vs the QV which is incorrect, just like the 308gtsi the BBi lost power compared to the carb versions, it took Ferrari to
add 4 valve heads to bring the performance back aka TR with CIS since you can't use aggressive cams with it so the engine can breathe and have quicker throttle response.

More power in the carb cars plus lighter weight make them faster.

The only way to make a BBi as fast as a carb car is change the fuel injection system and add aggressive carb BB cams.
.

 

I find it hard to believe that a bbi is over 1000 lbs. heavier than an original 365 bb......maybe that bbi # is the gross vehicle weight...or including passengers...big ones at that!

 

Agreed


I also feel that the 365 is not 2700 pounds +/- either. No way.