Warm Idle Light ‘ON” and Brake Failure. | FerrariChat

Warm Idle Light ‘ON” and Brake Failure.

Discussion in '308/328' started by Carson_Kitt, Aug 5, 2007.

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  1. Carson_Kitt

    Carson_Kitt Karting

    May 1, 2004
    99
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Vincent
    Hi Guys,

    I took the ’80 GTSi out today for a short trip – 50 miles each way.

    Along the way, the ‘Brake Failure” indicator lit up.

    The manual stated this was due to unequal pressure.

    Reservoir was full, and there we no signs of any leaks – I was hoping it was a glitch or something, and continued along my merry way.

    Exit off the highway, and the idle while downshifting immediately jumps from 1000 rpm to 3500-4000.

    At this same time, the yellow instrument light in the upper right corner came on signaling ‘low engine temperature”

    Drove another three miles and proceeded to make a right turn at a light, while downshifting and braking, the brake pedal sank to the floor, no brakes whatsoever.

    That includes the emergency brake too.

    After averting what could have been a really bad situation and saying a couple of prayers, I tried to figure out what happened to cause both symptoms.

    Before the idle shot up, it was running fine, 170 degrees (water), 65 psi (oil pressure), and oil temp was 210 degrees – everything was running as it should and always did.

    The idle increased after almost 50 miles of normal driving when it 85 degrees outside.

    What would cause the idle to increase so drastically for no apparent reason?

    In case it helps, after pulling into a parking lot, following the brake failure incident, the car will idle fine when the clutch is not engaged, the second you try to shift, the idle goes up again.

    Don’t have a clue on this one.

    Back to the brake failure, the indicator light never came on again, and the brakes were working fine with no fade.

    While in the parking lot, I found out that I could pump the brakes and get one or two half-hearted stops.

    Odd enough, the reservoir was still full!

    After the tow home, I was able to drive it into the garage – the brakes worked, and the idle was back to normal!

    Well, I don't have a clue where to start, hence this post.

    Has anyone had a similar problem(s)?

    Thanks in advance,

    Vince
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,806
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    (First, please confirm the status of your 308i -- completely stock?, cold fast idle device disabled?, air injection removed?, etc.)

    If your cold fast idle device is present, and the cold-running warning light always comes "on" at the same time as the high warm idle appears, this indicates that you most likely have a problem with the water thermoswitch mounted in the expansion tank and/or its associated wiring (i.e., something goes "open" in the +12V volt food chain and the system "thinks" it is actually cold). Unfortunately, your model is designed in such a way that "all things being right" actively turns the cold fast idle device "off" -- so if something fails, it defaults into the "on" condition (F fixed this on later K/KE models). Easiest thing to do/try if you have this problem out on the road (and it won't go away) is to unplug the small vacuum line going to the cold start air valve (and bonus point if you block off the small vacuum line to prevent anything entering the intake). See: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141229 to get more on the electrics to check/simulate what the water thermoswitch should be doing.

    With regard to the brakes -- no pedal resistance with no fluid loss has to be a bad sign for the Master Cylinder. Also, one side of the MC not working might legitimately cause the brake warning light to come "on".
     
  3. Carson_Kitt

    Carson_Kitt Karting

    May 1, 2004
    99
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Vincent
    Hi Steve,

    Thank you for your help.

    Yes, the cold fast idle device is present.

    Everything on the car is stock and no mods have been done.

    On a typical day, when starting the car, it will idle at 3000 rpm, and then over the course of five minutes, the water temp will reach normal levels as will the oil pressure, then the idle will drop to the usual 1000 rpm idle.

    I will check out the link that you posted and see what happens.

    I will post again when I have found something out.

    Thank you again,

    Vince
     
  4. James in Denver

    James in Denver Formula 3

    May 23, 2006
    2,136
    Centennial Colorado
    Full Name:
    James in Denver
    As far as the brakes, this is not FCar experience, but I had something similar on an MCycle (without the lights). The back brake caliper was sticking a bit, and the disc/rotor overheated. Not sure if bubbles in the lines cause this, or at some point, heat caused the friction material to go "over limit", but about 20 mins of driving produced no brakes on the rear at all. After cooling, it came back. No noticable leaks at all. Had to rebuild the caliper, no problems since.

    James in Denver
     
  5. Champboat/Champcar

    Champboat/Champcar Formula Junior

    Jan 29, 2007
    885
    Freeport NY
    Full Name:
    Eric T
    If you can pump up the brakes for a stop or two, after the brake pedal has gone to the floor, I think the master Cyl. is bad, any time this happens, Ferrari or not thats usally it, I mean , no leaks on all 4 corners,and the pedal goes to the floor,What else is there ?, you can check the large vacume hose that goes from the master all the way to the engine,if that gets broken you lose the brakes, but not to the floor,I wonder if that hose is interfering with the throttle linkage. On the bright side, you got the car home without a accident or incident, you are real lucky!
     

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