Warm start 348/Mondial t best-case behavior | FerrariChat

Warm start 348/Mondial t best-case behavior

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by buzzm2005, May 8, 2006.

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  1. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

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    #1 buzzm2005, May 8, 2006
    My 89 Mondi t w/Motronic 2.5 cold starts perfectly. About 1 second of crank and she lights up and settles in nicely to ~1000rpm. Warm start is good too.

    Hot start is still a mystery. I think she wants to light almost instantly when I activate the starter but it doesn't really catch and then I can crank for 3-4 seconds with no catch in sight. Here's what works now: Start and if it doesn't catch in 2 seconds, stop. Count backwards from 5. Retry. On the retry, it always starts in about 1 second. At no time is the throttle touched -- it's all Motronic.

    Is this "normal" behavior?
     
  2. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 PAP 348, May 8, 2006

    Is this another case of the hot start/flywheel grease issue?? Does your car have a noisey rattle while cranking when hot? And when you shut the car off while hot? :)
     
  3. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

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    #3 buzzm2005, May 8, 2006
    Hmmm! I suppose it does, a little. [BTW when I say "catch" I mean ignition. The starter isn't just spinning; the motor is being cranked.] There's sort of a "collection of metal pie pans being shaken around in a metal box" sound lurking under the chuggita-chuggita of cranking motor.

    I will search the site for hot start/flywheel grease threads! Thanks!
     
  4. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 PAP 348, May 8, 2006

    Too easy buddy. You got to love fchat,i only learnt about the hot start issue last year when i joined. Ive only had my car for 8 months,and this forum in invaluable. :D You learn something new everyday here,its great! Good luck with your car man! :)
     
  5. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

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    #5 buzzm2005, May 8, 2006
    Indeed. I recently got the correctly sized K&N filter from this site after the manufacturer themselves gave me the wrong part.

    I searched and found plenty on this from Aug/Sep 2005. Funny that I bought the car at that time! She had a major service in Nov 2005 and I haven't done a lot of start/stop driving to expose this problem. Confidence is high that I have a "rattley flywheel" issue, although not as bad as some have experienced because I can get the car started on the second attempt.

    Could this be fallout from the major service....?
     
  6. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 PAP 348, May 8, 2006

    Not sure bud. Who did the major service?? You obviosuly have to remove the clutch to get to the flywheel as you know. Did they touch the clutch when they did the major service? If you did not fit a new clutch,and if they didnt have it apart to check the condition of your old clutch,then they may not have touched it in the major service?
     
  7. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    #7 Beau365, May 8, 2006
    Yep. Sure doesn't recommend that technique in any manual, but once you've learnt the idiosyncrasy, the Bosch 2.5 is as reliable as it gets.
     
  8. F1Ace

    F1Ace F1 Rookie

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    #8 F1Ace, May 8, 2006
    My 328 needs a technique to start it when warm as well.

    Try turning the ignition on, then giving the throttle one half-pump before igniting. Seems to make a big difference for me.
     
  9. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 PAP 348, May 8, 2006

    Um........isnt your 328 EFI? You shouldnt have to touch the accelerator pedal at all to start the car. But if its working for you. Stick with it. :)
     
  10. F1Ace

    F1Ace F1 Rookie

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    #10 F1Ace, May 9, 2006
    Yup it's EFI, but it does seem to work.

    I had someone explain it to me once this way: Pressing the throttle equalizes the outside atmosphere to the internal one. That's why it's not a typical FULL pump, like with carbs, but just something to open the valves.

    Again, it seems to make a big difference. Otherwise I can sometimes turn turn turn it over, frustrated it does not start.

    Wes
     
  11. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    #11 Challenge64, May 9, 2006
    Ive had a hot start problem since I got our Mondial a month or so ago. I learned (on F-chat) that there is a Factory kit with solenoid that can be installed that bypasses alot of the wiring to provide a direct current to the starter.

    I am hours away from picking the car up to see if it solved my hot start problems....
     
  12. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

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    #12 buzzm2005, May 9, 2006
    What were your symptoms? I am (once again) amazed at how fast the fchat community offered a diagnosis -- and the detail of the historic threads on the subject. I do believe I suffer from Rattle-y Flywheel.
     
  13. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula 3

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    #13 NYCFERRARIS, May 9, 2006
    I am sure you will see my comments in the hot start ( or really hot -- no start) threads. Seems there is a knock sensor that hear the rattle and affects ignition. When I was stuck I could "bump" start the engine asap withthe starter and in first gear...only use in emergency. You need the grease man...it is crazy but true. There is a specific Agip white grease in a specific amount that gets injected..should always be done with a clutch job. There could be other causes of course, but this is a 348 nuance.
    Let me know if you need more help or details. Good news is that the clutch is a low labor job and one of the easiest to do on the T --it sits all the way at the rear inside the "pumpkin"
     
  14. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    #14 Challenge64, May 9, 2006
    For me ...I would turn the key and nothing. Not a sound. Each time Ive waited a while and it works again.
     
  15. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

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    #15 buzzm2005, Jun 5, 2006
    Finally got the car to WWoC this afternoon to refix a number of minor things and let them try to start it when hot. Jim the tech diagnosed lack of flywheel grease as the problem in about 5 seconds and apparently I've got a severe case. But it's something they all know how to fix so I feel better about that. The unfortunate part is that during the major service there was nothing obviously wrong with the tranny or clutch so they don't go poking into it. And there's very little in the way of hot starting during the major service so the problem simply didn't manifest itself.
     
  16. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
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    #16 Michael B, Jun 5, 2006
    Dont forget to check the fuel pressure regulators. If either are bad that can contribute to the exact fault your noting. Pull a vacuum hose off of them & see if you can note a fuel scent within the hose. If so, that could be your issue.
     

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