News

430 Warning about 430 on the market

Discussion in '360/430' started by FSM348, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2017
    386
    There is a Ferrari 430 Red on beige with red inlets on Daytona seats with 26k miles located in/near Orlando and the owners name is Tom.

    (VIN ZFFEW58A360148510)

    We struck a deal with an agreed upon price and then it was time to put a purchase agreement together. He had an issue with a line “seller hereby states their are no known mechanical issues with the car as of the date of this agreement.” Okay, I can understand his fear I might be the type of person to take advantage of this statement. I would never do that, but he wouldn’t know that and no hard feelings. But then I asked if he would have a PPI done. Tom stated there was nobody near he would trust so I brought up Ferrari of Mid Florida in Orlando. The reply I got was “No, they are the worst, go find another car.”

    Seriously?! Hopefully this guy doesn’t find somebody unwilling to do a little due diligence and buy a car that most likely has something hiding underneath a pretty skin.
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,236
    Central Florida
    #2 APA#1, Oct 6, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
    Can't see the problem with the PPI assuming you were paying for it. You were not clear, but if you asked him to pay for it I would say no as well. You could have used Bruce at Marenello in Eustis.

    As to that line in the "agreement", it's a used car, thus sold as-is. Seller should only warrant free and and marketable title, that's it. You need to do your own DD. I assume you ran a carfax or something similar first prior to making your offer? At least it gives some reassurance.

    That car is actually a good deal price wise for only 78K

    https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/cocoa-ferrari-f430/6976169000.html

    Seller states "2006 Ferrari F430 26K miles, Red/Tan, new tires, all maintenance current, two keys, Most desirable colors and in great condition! F1 clutch replaced in 2016 at 22K miles, Carfax shows in 2008 with 2000 miles on the dial it had a front impact without airbag deployment, May consider aircraft in trade?"

    Pretty clear about the accident in his description.

    Curious, what was he willing to accept?
     
    driller1 likes this.
  4. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2017
    386
    That was pretty much the price we discussed and yes that is the car and I think your missing the point.

    Are you saying it is too much to ask the seller of a $78k used Ferrari if there is any mechanical issues known with the car? Heck, that's the first thing I ask any seller of a car. If I drive off their driveway and an engine blows that's on me because it's a used car but if lets say for instance his mechanic said he did a leakdown and it showed some of the rings were starting to give up and then he decided to intentionally hide that from a prospective buyer that is morally bankrupt and why not try to protect yourself?

    That being said I was still willing to remove that from the agreement (which did say "as-is" and "where-is") and move forward with a simple inspection from a Ferrari dealer and yes I fully intended to pay for it since it was a request that I made and for my own benefit.

    With that can we simply keep this to the point of hoping that any prospective buyers walk away from any car that a seller says no to a PPI. There is always a reason for it from my experience.

    Like Ringo Star said, "Peace and Love!"
     
  5. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 25, 2019
    877
    Memphis, TN
    Full Name:
    John
    In my opinion, when a used car is purchased from a private party, the moment the buyer drives away after paying, anything that happens to the car is the buyer's responsibility regardless of what it is.

    Private party sales are different than a dealer purchase. You're buying the car "as is" with no guarantees at all. The buyer should satisfy themselves the car is as depicted and be ready to take on any faults without involving the seller after concluding the purchase.

    I suspect the issue with the seller is that you scared him off with the non-standard language “seller hereby states there are no known mechanical issues with the car as of the date of this agreement.” That statement conjures potential for litigation. He might have expected to have to pay for a PPI since you weren't clear. You might call him back and explain that you're going to pay for it and that he can write the agreement. Bruce at Marenello would be an excellent choice for a PPI.
     
    goldlifter, Oengus, Freddan and 5 others like this.
  6. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2017
    386
    One thing is for sure, I’ll keep my experience to myself next time. I was simply sharing my experience thinking it would help others and not letting a PPI be completed because he didn’t trust Ferrari of Orlando and nobody near him was qualified enough to touch his car is enough for me to walk. Blatantly not letting his car get an inspection in Orlando, Florida??? To each their own I guess. Let’s not forget I was perfectly understandable with omitting that line out of the agreement and was told to walk only after requesting a PPI. Sheesh, tough crowd.
     
    SoftwareDrone likes this.
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    4,022
    Ask, no....try to work something written into the contract to that effect on a $78k 430? Yes.

    I think the guy probably thought you had higher expectations than the car warranted at that price and chose to not deal with you.

    I bet someone approaching it differently would get permission to get a PPI somewhere (maybe he had a bad experience with the dealer).

    Other fish in the sea, just keep looking.....
     
    Zeff, Apollo 11, driller1 and 2 others like this.
  9. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
    1,887
    Ontario, The Real One in Canada
    Full Name:
    Lars!
    #7 I'm 360 Canuck, Oct 6, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
    I think you maybe should have stated at the time of the agreement that it would be conditional upon a satisfactory PPI, up to a certain dollar value in expected repairs. It may even be premature to settle on a price before a PPI is done.

    As a seller it can be annoying to go through all the haggling and then have the person think they can nickel and dime you even more because the 10 year old car appears to not be in brand new condition.
    Buying a used car always has some risk and there is always some surprises.
    At the same time, I’m not sure many PPIs are worth the paper they’re written on. I bought my car without one, and I doubt they would have found anything that would have changed my mind about the purchase. Yes, it needed brakes, yes it had sticky interior parts, a couple burned out bulbs and a bum wheel bearing a few months later. Meh.
     
    Zeff, goldlifter, GTUnit and 2 others like this.
  10. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 8, 2016
    6,086
    The CSA
    Full Name:
    Me
    I didn't see anyone say anything slightly cross in their reply to warrant offense.

    I'm sure the contract was one of those standard, off-the-web contracts that only exist to add paperwork to a deal. I've used them to sell cars only to make sure that the party BUYING the car understands that buying used car through private sale is AS IS. It doesn't matter what happens as soon as they drive away, the seller has absolutely no responsibility towards the car, so having that line in there is completely unnecessary,and unenforceable. My cars are all meticulously maintained beyond factory specs, but I would never want to risk the headache of having a line that may cause a seller to try and litigate after a mechanical failure of a car...ESPECIALLY on a Ferrari.

    I do agree with you, however that the refusal for the PPI is a red flag, and you were probably right to walk away from the deal based on that info. The title should be a warning about the seller...
     
  11. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,236
    Central Florida
    My personal guess is that by starting off with realtor style, home buying language like that in an agreement, probably put the seller off and he just decided he did not want to deal with you as it set the tone of what's probably coming next. For the price he is asking I would imagine he could find another buyer pretty easy that would make it smooth for him.

    I use this when selling any vehicle, if the buyer won't sign it I walk/run away from the deal, there will be another buyer.

    To have and to hold the same unto Buyer, his executors, administrators, and assigns forever.

    Seller warrants and represents to Buyer that the title conveyed is good, its transfer is rightful, and the Property is delivered free from any security interest or other lien or encumbrance.

    It is understood and agreed that the buyer has accepted the property and components in its "AS-IS" condition, and no warranty, either expressed or implied, and no representation as to the condition of said vehicle has been or is binding upon the Seller

    Furthermore buyer agrees to hold seller harmless from any and all claims, by either party, arising from this transaction.

    Any sale or use taxes, title transfers, tags and insurance if applicable on this purchase, are the responsibility of Buyer
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. phil the brit

    phil the brit Formula 3

    Jul 7, 2013
    1,201
    Colchester+Clermont
    Full Name:
    Phil Taylor
    The buyer seems to be upset at everyone who has commented. If you tried to put those words in a deal with me, I'd walk away from you as well. I agree with the seller. You tried to write in words that MIGHT involve litigation at a later date.
     
    goldlifter, GTUnit, paulchua and 4 others like this.
  14. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    4,022
    I wouldn't agree to this for example....anything more than a as-is where-is would strike me as bring overly litigious.
     
    Zeff likes this.
  15. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,236
    Central Florida
    You wouldn't agree to my as-is statement of the OP's post?
     
  16. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,236
    Central Florida
  17. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    4,022
    Your first post was a more agreeable statement than the second one for sure.
     
  18. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,236
    Central Florida
  19. DaChosen1FoSho

    DaChosen1FoSho Karting

    Dec 23, 2017
    66
    78k? Well damn I just passed 25k miles. Is that all mine is worth too? Yikes.
     
  20. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 9, 2017
    1,046
    Manhattan Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    John
    The ad states "Carfax shows in 2008 with 2000 miles on the dial it had a front impact without airbag deployment". I think this is affecting the asking price.
     
  21. DaChosen1FoSho

    DaChosen1FoSho Karting

    Dec 23, 2017
    66
    missed that, thanks! Feel slightly better now. :)
     
  22. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
    1,887
    Ontario, The Real One in Canada
    Full Name:
    Lars!
    Still could be a good deal.
     
  23. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,413
    its very tough to a dealer PPI in LA, most don't want the hassle.
     
  24. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2017
    386
    Put a deposit down on another with a seller that had no problem with language in agreement. Usually a sign he has nothing to hide. Either way, I’m a very easy going seller when I post a car and I would prefer to buy from same kind of person when I’m buying. I don’t have time for sellers who get their panties in a bunch when I’m trying to find middle ground yet still protect myself from the kind of people we all know are out there. Plenty of threads with new buyers greatly regretting buying the car they did and in some situations it’s likely the seller was aware of the issue but covered it up.

    Anyways, looking forward to the car!
     
  25. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,741
    the seller who agreed to that language is either illiterate or dumb! and that language doesn't protect you from anything.
     
    njcycleguy, GTUnit, Oengus and 6 others like this.
  26. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,236
    Central Florida
    I agree with that statement!
     
  27. JoeTSI

    JoeTSI Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 16, 2015
    1,165
    Huntsville, AL
    Full Name:
    Joe K.
    If I were a betting man, I'm going to bet that seller is seriously going to regret signing that after each and every nit noid issue you "find" with the car. Even with that, it won't hold up in court if there is a mechanical issue after you both sign on the dotted line.
     
  28. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2017
    386
    When I bought my 348 I got nothing but congratulations from fchatters and I definitely felt welcome. I'm an honest, standup guy that believes in taking accountability for my own misfortunes and/or decisions that don't pan out. I don't expect a 13 year old Ferrari to be anything close to perfect and expect there to be issues along the way, it's part of the ownership of these kinds of cars. I owned a 348 that I restored back to life over a 2 year period so I would like to think I completely understand the frailties of Ferrari ownership. I love working on them and I enjoy putting hard work into mahinces I have such a high regard for. I simply thought I was doing good by putting a warning out there for anybody else interested in purchasing a 430. Is it a good car? I never laid eyes on it so sure it could be a fantastic car with no issues. I will never know as the buyer outright refused to let a PPI be performed and I can't imagine seeing that as anything other than a giant red flag. I meant no offense in the wording of the purchase agreement and don't disagree that it may not even be worthy of litigation if it became an issue. As a previous owner of one of the most hated Ferraris of all time ( in my opinion the most misunderstood and beautiful cars Ferrari ever built) I understand deeply the concept of buyer beware but I would much rather look at a car for what I think I can make it into with TLC rather than judge every nick, scratch and imperfection.

    I hope that the incorrect assumptions on my character and complete disregard for my intentions as shown by several members in this thread is shared by only a small percentage of Fchatters as I have several good friends on here, some members for almost 20 years, that I am glad to have met and enjoy sharing a love for these amazing machines. Indeed, no good deed goes unpunished and I will tread carefully when posting in the 430 forum in the future. The 348 community was unbelievably helpful during the time I had with my car and I intend to give back in any way I can. I sincerely hope there will be no difference in the 430 community moving forward but I have to be honest, this thread put a sour taste in my mouth for sure.

    Cheers to all
     
    JaguarXJ6 likes this.

Share This Page