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Was this posted as a joke????????????????

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Bob Zambelli, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    #1 Bob Zambelli, Jul 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2009
    Somebody sent me this excerpt from a post made sometime ago (I'm not sure of the time frame).
    I read it with more than a bit of puzzlement. Was this posted on April 1st???????????

    Referencing Ferraris, it reads:
    Just out of curiosity, was this posted as a joke or is the writer really serious? Where did this "30%" come from????????????????

    Well, I maintain that "it IS all about driving the car" and "these cars were MEANT to be driven" and one may rest assured that I do indeed "have a clue". Furthermore, I own and have owned a fair number of Ferraris, ALL OF WHICH were everyday drivers. If you look at the total mileage I put on all of them, it's somewhere around 200,000. Tell me, instead of all that wonderful driving, should I have instead chosen a different path like "Ferrari ownership is about pursuing the car, learning about the car, getting the car up to a level that you want, meeting people, learning about who you like to deal with for repairs, enjoying F-Chat..." ?

    As I have all too often stated, "It's just a car". Also, regarding who I like to deal with for repairs, that's easy - ME. Nobody else has worked on any of my cars while I owned them.

    So, I'm really curious about this post and who posted it - I think it might make for some interesting discussion!!!!!

    Bob Z.

    ps - I have to run some errands tomorrow - just some general running around. Post office, some shopping at Walmart, some work at the church, maybe pick up some plants and a bag of potting soil, fill up a few gas containers, Good chance I'll use the GTC.
     
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  3. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

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    I remember this post. Didn't understand it then, don't now.

    Whilst I agree that there is much more to Ferrari ownership than driving your Ferrari, it is still the driving first and foremost that was the reason for me to buy these cars. I agree I have met many nice people and had wonderful meetings and I even have 4k+ posts to my name on this board, but the beginning and the end of ownership are driving the thing. If I recall a nice memory of Ferrari ownership, the first thing that comes to mind is NOT a post on F-chat, or the lovely people I have met. I think of driving my 330GTC in the Alps, my 550 in Tuscany, or my Boxer in England. DRIVING! That's what it's about.

    I thought the words "does not have a clue or doesn't own a Ferrari" were particularly insulting to many owners here, and in fact shows that the man himself is not particularly clued-up. It's fine to have an opinion, but not fine to be derogatory.


    Onno
     
  4. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    It's probably a very different experience for different people.

    Like you and Onno, my car is for driving, in the first place, and we enjoy the heck out of it that way.

    The rest is a bonus. Yes, you meet nice people (and some not so nice ones too), you live with the realisation that you possess something really special and are thus very fortunate, and I quite enjoy taking care of the car as well as keeping it in as good a condition as it deserves.

    I never understood those who buy these cars as a status-symbol, or just because 'they can'. Someone recently mentioned a 308 with 300kms or miles on it. How incredibly silly.
     
  5. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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  6. Papa G

    Papa G Formula 3

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    #5 Papa G, Jul 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2009
    Has to be a joke (I hope). All that other stuff he lists can be done without ownership of a Ferrari.
     
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  8. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

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    #6 VisualHomage, Jul 26, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2009
    I don't have a Ferrari but have driven some. And the experience of NOT driving a Ferrari, if the car is plainly available, is tragic. When driving one I fully understand that you must drive the Ferrari to "get it." Ferrari has captured the full meaning of "the drive" in their cars, raising it to spiritual levels.

    People who treat their car as if it's this undrivable/cannot be worn-in heirloom are denying themselves some of the simple joys of life on the open road in one of the world's most incredible sports cars.




    That said..... lots and LOTS of Ferraris simply are not driven. When you see car after car after car with "2000 miles only!" advertised in ads, you wonder.... uhhhhh... where is the driving? Driving the Ferrari is not recommended! So even if the post is a joke, it has some truth in it. Lots of people simply don't drive their Ferraris. They own garage queens that are just too precious, waiting to be resold only = pointless.

    This is particularly true, and entirely ironic, of the "true driver's Ferraris," the "super Ferraris" such as the F40, F50, Enzo ---most of which are almost never driven at all, for fear that 200 extra miles will sink the precious resale value.
     
  9. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm waiting for Jim G. (aka Napolis) to chime in with his very appropos saying about not driving your Ferrari.....
     
  10. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Unfortunately, the original post was not meant as a joke.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  11. Cris

    Cris Karting

    Jul 27, 2004
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    Vermont
    So, if Ferraris are "all about driving..." them then that leaves little (zero, actually) for the following:

    -History
    -Aesthetics
    -Appreciation of, and care for the mechanics of the machines
    -Camaraderie with like-minded owners and enthusiasts
    -Insert your own reason(s) here

    Considering how much most owners actually drive their Ferraris, 30% seems generous.

    An when/if some administration some day decides that old cars (or the gas that's burned in their engines) no longer fit with the grand plan, that percentage will seem dreamily high.

    Not that it matters, but Fontana's had more seat time in more different Ferraris than most on this board. I think his is an honest–if polarizing–assessment based un-emotionally in reality.

    Cris
     
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  13. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    Cris - Please tell us about the Ferraris you've owned and driven as well as your qualifications to make that post.

    For what it's worth, I would take driving over any and ALL of the points you mentioned. Furthermore, just because a car is driven does not mean that the owner is ignorant of those points.

    Ferrari is not a shrine, not a religion, not some mystical entity to be worshipped while it deteriorates in a garage - IT'S JUST A CAR.

    If I wound up owning a car like 5701 GT, you can bet your various assets that the car would be driven. Since I live in South Carolina, I would drive it ALL YEAR LONG, after having installed AC.

    There is no talent or skill required to keep a car perfect if it's sequestered away in a garage for most of it's life with little mileage. Show me a car with 150,000 to 200,000 miles on it that still looks new (Like my GTC) and that will impress me one hell of a lot more.

    SHEEESH!!!!

    Bob Z.
     
  14. Cris

    Cris Karting

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    Well, since you've decided to make this personal and question my bona fides, I'll just bow out now and concede whatever defeat you're looking to inflict on anyone offering an opinion contradictory to your own.

    Good luck getting to wherever you hoped this thread was going to take you.

    Cris


     
  15. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    The post in question is in a thread started by me. Outside of that thread it is totally out of context. The car referenced in that thread is very well known by me and the original owner is nothing less than a true Ferrari enthusiast. This car was referred to by a very prominent west coast Ferrari technician as "lovingly cared for". I seriously doubt that you would turn your nose up at a car in perfect original condition, with every document and receipt, and a log book of every single driving event from day one. How these cars are meant to be driven is totally up to the owner.
     
  16. fingolfin

    fingolfin Formula 3

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    I'm not a historian on Enzo, or anything, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he would be on the OP's side.
     
  17. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

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    Enzo would have liked you to drive his cars, so he could sell you another.

    As to the wisdom of using a forty year old assemblage of near-unobtainable parts to collect potting soil, I'm less certain.

    I don't wear my dinner jacket when I go to buy potting soil. Yet, it's just clothing ! (actually, more comfortable than my regular gardening clothes now that I think about it). And I don't have caviar and champagne for every meal, either.

    Driving the cars I have collected is an occasion. If I have been fortunate enough to acquire a rare artifact of a special time and place, never to be again, I respect it as I would the art on my walls. My sons wholeheartedly endorse this, by the way.

    If someone wants to burn through what they own, they certainly have the right to do so. There are people that guzzle fine wine by the case. I consume myself, but in more careful measure. It just seems correct.
     
  18. Jedi

    Jedi Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Such a statement. The first time I drove my 328 GTS once it got home, I kept staring at the
    horsey on the 'horn button' and thinking "my God, it's MY Ferrari". That was a year and a half
    ago, almost 5000 miles later. I drive my car every chance I get - my 2-hour 'milk runs' were
    infamous for a while here on F-chat. I drive her to Home Depot and Lowes almost every weekend
    when the sun shines. I do club events (and TRY to sponsor them - see Northwest if you haven't
    checked in for a head count :D), meet clients, and DRIVE. I really don't care about the mileage
    as a resale thing - I'm at almost 70K so it's about as valuable as a 2000 mile Yugo so WHO CARES.
    I have $70k into my car, so will NEVER make a 'profit'.

    So what else should I do but DRIVE THE DAMN CAR???? I guess I'm just a 'driver' and not the
    garage queen sort.

    DRIVE THEM!!! :D
     
  19. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

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    If you don't see the difference between a 328 and a 330 GTC, I think you've made my point.
     
  20. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

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    I think that a distinction needs to be made here between "why we buy/want these cars" and "what we do with them in the time we spend with them." Plenty of people (myself included) buy them for the primary reason of enjoying driving them, but nonetheless spend -- and enjoy -- lots of time with the cars maintaining them, meeting people, etc. No need for argument here! :)

    By the way, if admiring the car's design and fine details is not on the list for why we buy these cars, then I humbly suggest purchasing a souped up Subaru! ;)
     
  21. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    As an old and dear friend of the OP, I can attest to several things: his Ferraris (and other vehicles) have always been meticulously maintained; he has a deep knowledge and appreciation of Ferrari history; no one of my acquaintance has met and become friends with more Ferrari owners (of greatly varying background); he drives his GTC with great frequency and reverence, "con brio;" he doesn't own a Ferrari for any other reason than it pleases his sensibilities as an engineer and an appreciation of great performance and beauty. I must now offer this disclaimer in the interest of "transparency" (today's favorite work when discussing government and politics): when it comes to repair work, noboby but Bob Z. ever lays a hand on either of my Ferraris! Fred
     
  22. nsxnick

    nsxnick Formula 3

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    take a deep breath and relax. it was just one man's opinion.
     
  23. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    #20 ArtS, Jul 27, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
    ColdWater,

    I do not have experience in lots of different Ferraris. My car is only a 330 GT and not a GTC but I think I missed your point too. Can you elaborate?

    For background, I have owned my car for a number of years and have used the car as a daily driver during parts of my ownership. Frankly, if it wasn't for undoing much differed/poorly done maintenance, my car would be much cheaper to run and properly maintain than any new Ferrari (out of warrantee). If I had a 328, I might not take it to Home Depot but only because it has less trunk space than either a 330 GT or 330 GTC.

    Regards,

    Art S.

    PS. Steve Markowski's (Fontana's) response was aimed at Yale, who has had a nightmare of a time getting his car sorted because he started with a pretty car with lots of hidden mechanical issues. Fortunately, Yale stuck with it. He is finally getting close to having his car become a very reliable GT (still a few minor gremlins to sort out now and then).
     
  24. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

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    So it comes out that the OP has strong and direct personal financial interest in having owners incur mileage to accelerate the maintenance and repair frequency.

    Nothing like stirring up the "Ferraris are meant to be driven" jihadists to perk up revenues in a slow economy.

    LOL.
     
  25. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
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    Ahmm blokes in this thread,the response has been passionate to say the least.As a reletive newcomer(April 07 365GT42+2).In the Oct of that year I attended the
    Aussie nationals in Canberra.I trailed the car 900 miles and drove the car the rest(900 miles,and back).The response as a newby was overwelming,maybe the beers at the end of each day have clouded my memory of the experience.There were folk who drove,trailed and one bloke(very well known) who brought his own 3 car enclosed truck!!! I came away with 3 trophys(some by default).From a nothing I,m now part of a tight family,of whom I can call on for assistance.The preparation of my 65 330GT is coming to fruition for this years nationals in Toowoomba(2100 mile round trip)driven all the way,tracked(if we get the brakes right),skid panned,paraded and concoursed(multi state/national winner).I think you,ve got to chill out and look at the whole package.We are privelaged to own/drive these machines,and be a part
    of probably the world most iconic motoring family(Bugatti included).That my .02c
     
  26. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    #23 ArtS, Jul 27, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
    Cris,

    I noticed you are from VT. Are you affiliated with the Markowski's shop?

    I think Steve's point was many old Ferraris are no longer considered cars but Objects de Art, to be admired for their aesthetics. Unfortunately, these cars deteriorate whether they are used or not. Many of these cars are maintained with their beauty rather than their driving characteristics in mind, cutting a corner here or there mechanically, reducing their roadworthyness but keeping them pretty and able to run around the display field. This is how garage queens are created.

    The 3000 mile 330 GT is a museum piece and I agree that it should be preserved as it is unique due to its originality. Additionally, I would be afraid to drive it without replacing most of its 40 year old original rubber bits. However, there is no similar issue in a beautifully restored or well maintained vintage Ferrari. Anyone who enjoys old cars would find them a true joy! And, if properly restored, surprisingly reliable (by the standards of the time).

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  27. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Simon,

    I don't think the garage queen mentality is very widespread in Australia. It sounds like most there really drive the wheels off the cars! Followed by some good beer and BS... :D

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  28. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

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    My serious point is that certain cars are worth preserving, as much as what can be found in museums of art. But there are gradations of quality, as in anything else produced by man. If the car is special, humility suggests using it on special occasions (and each use thus becomes an occasion). On the other hand, if one has the money and one's sense of mortality demands that every remaining moment should be a special occasion, then by all means feel free to burn through an irreplaceable artifact. I'm just suggesting a framework of values, with lots of room for debate about what constitutes an artifact worth preserving.

    Less seriously, I'm poking fun at the machismo of those who assert that the value of these cars can only be derived from driving them. As if taking a rare car through a string of traffic lights to a mall parking lot demonstrates brio rather than foolhardiness.

    The cars in my garage span sixty years. The new ones are vastly better in every respect than the older ones. They don't even leak or rust when I take them out in the rain. Cars of the '60s and before are, frankly, relatively fragile. I savor them at special moments, and by carefully doing so know that at least one generation after me will have the same incomparable pleasure. It will not be long before contemporary vehicles have the panache of a vacuum cleaner.
     

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