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Water Pump Seals

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by qwazipsycho, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
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    Scott
    #1 qwazipsycho, Oct 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've finally pulled my engine....again. Now to deal with this water pump situation. It's complicated and there isn't a whole lot if "THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT" out there. I've read a ton of stuff on this site but there's so many opinions and not all of them agree.

    I've been told that for my 88.5 TR it calls for the 2 piece seal. I originally installed a 1 piece and after a short time driving, it leaks. It appears that the 1 piece requires the seal to be "compressed" so that the front of the seal slides back on the metal "sleeve" far enough to where the sleeve is protruding and not the seal. If you don't do that, the impeller drags on the front of the seal causing it to distort and leak.

    After this most recent dis-assembly, The 1 piece seal appears completely intact but there are signs of slight rubbing on the back of the impeller. I'm thinking maybe I can just compress the seal a bit more to get it to slide further back on the sleeve. But I don't know if too much damage has been done already.

    I've received a new 2 piece seal but I've been told these are more prone to leakage because they are 2 pieces. If you don't install it just right, it will leak.

    Can anyone give me some insight into this little puzzle? This is the 3rd time in 6 months I've pulled this engine. I don't want to do it again. At least not soon.
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  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    until now I never had trouble with installing new water pump
    a friend of mine did it once and it was also leaking. the he pulled out the new seal and put in a new part. but between the housing and the seal he put some silcone and since then it is ok. also he put silicone between the shaft and the bushing.
    hope this helps a little?
     
  3. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
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    I did put silicone around the outside of the seal where it meets the housing but I never thought about putting it inside the sleeve.
     
  4. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
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    Bump

    Anybody else have any experience?
     
  5. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
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    I guess I'm on my own on this one. Wish me luck....
     
  6. vincep99

    vincep99 Formula 3
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    Jun 8, 2009
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  7. kerrywittig

    kerrywittig Formula 3
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    Sealant around where seal presses into housing.
    Sealant around the shaft.
    Have the PROPER tool to press the seal into the housing so that it is straight, perpindicular and overall.......RIGHT!

    Been there, done this twice, ME

    PS I know.............NOT at all helpful.
     
  8. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,761
    your impellor looks to have a seat for the seal (old style).
    the old 2 piece seal would work in your application.
    pressure test to be sure....
    Rgds,
    Vincenzo
     
  9. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
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    Thanks Vince, Vincenzo, and Kerry.

    Amazing how F can make something so simple so complicated.

    Wish me luck.
     
  10. Marty

    Marty Karting

    Nov 21, 2003
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    Next time I'm in Hawaii I will personally deliver the coverted FerrariChat perseverance award to Scott. Or a bottle of single malt - his choice.
     
  11. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,029
    Dubai, UAE
    I have the same 2 part seal in my '91, the key is to pressure test it as described in the thread.

    3 years later the seal is still perfect, but it am considering switching to Evans NPG as it contains no water. No rust and the system runs without any pressure even at full temp which has got to be easier on these seals.

    I have just converted my Countach to NPG and will drive it a bit before I try it in the TR.
     
  12. kerrywittig

    kerrywittig Formula 3
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    Please share some info and/or sites where one can get some insight into "NPG" please?

    What is NPG ME
     
  13. Marty

    Marty Karting

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  14. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
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    Evans NPG coolants exist in different types. Apologies to the original post's author if this is a detour off topic.

    Power Cool 180° - Waterless Coolant for Performance Cars

    I used the original NPG 10 years ago in an old race Ducati with magnesium water pump cases as it would not hurt the cases and is legal in place of water with many race organizations. I still have the cases (and the bike).

    When I pulled the liners from the block on my '82 Countach I noticed that the steel was eaten away slightly. The o rings which seal the liners in the block also looked iffy.

    I tried NPG power cool 180 in a few competition motorcycles which see extreme use without issue. You can remove the rad cap at high temp without issue. Neato.

    I like it as it apparently lasts forever (good because it is not cheap and I hate the mess caused by changing glycol antifreeze every 2 years), the system runs on zero pressure (good for seals and o rings) and as it contains no water will not corrode metal. The downside is that you need to get almost all the water out to see the benefit. They sell a prep fluid which you fill in after you get as much of the original coolant out as possible. Once you run the engine to temp with the prep fluid in the system it is supposed to capture and remove the remaining water. A pain to dump, bleed and refill the system twice - on a Countach that means removing the exhaust manifolds to access the block drains. Twice.

    Your results may vary, but so far, so good. I will try it in my other CT over the next few months and see how it works before I convert the
     
  15. MAFIOSA

    MAFIOSA Rookie

    Oct 4, 2013
    40
    can anyone assist me on replacement ,i have repaired my coolant tank once before ,where do i find a new one ,or should i get it repairs again
    thanks
     
  16. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    Where is the seal that is supposed to sit in the impeller? Did you remove it for the picture?
     
  17. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

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    Start a new thread please. Don't hijack mine.
     
  18. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
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    The one piece seal doesn't work that way. The entire seal stays inside the casing. The impeller should not touch the seal.

    The two piece seal has 1 piece in the casing and 1 piece in the impeller.
     
  19. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

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    I have never heard of this stuff. Sounds wonderful. Water is a corrosive biatch!

    I don't see any pricing on that website. Just how expensive is that stuff?
     
  20. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
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    OK, I've searched the forum and I know there is a pic that someone posted showing the two piece water pump seal. All I need to know is which direction the outer piece (fits in the impeller) goes in. Does the white ceramic touch the inner piece or does the white ceramic go against the impeller?
     
  21. calder1

    calder1 Formula 3
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    Aug 26, 2006
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    Call me Monday at the office , I have some info in this that may help

    Craig
    310 937 6700
    FastCars,Ltd.Homepage
     
  22. kerrywittig

    kerrywittig Formula 3
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    Nov 10, 2005
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    Not meaning to hijack.....but............I again (third in 3 months, last one on 8/5/13) have a leaking water pump seal. Spent the weekend at Watkins Glen International as a pace car, last race on Sunday and I am informed by the grid co-ordinator that I left a pancake size puddle of anti-freeze where I was sitting on the pit exit road while waiting for the Group 5 cars to arrive for the start!

    Last 1 piece seal was installed with a great tool a fellow FChatter loaned me and all has been well for 4000 miles......now the weep hole is running wild! Looks like I'll need to borrow it AGAIN!!

    I guess I'll retire the TR for the year and do it again, notice I didn't say one more time.

    I'm gettin' good at this ME
     
  23. MonoSpecchio

    MonoSpecchio Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2006
    403
    SoCal in the IE
    Man...these installation difficulties are tempting me to leave my non-leaking water pump alone when I do the major on my '85. Keep us posted Kerry.
     
  24. kerrywittig

    kerrywittig Formula 3
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    I ABSOLUTELY agree!!

    If it isn't leaking, leave it alone.... I wish I had never touched it. I saw maybe 3 small 50 cent size puddles in the previous 3 years....I should have left well enough alone!

    I'm gonna really do some research on this pump seal and shaft. There has to be a better way.

    Seek & find ME
     
  25. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    before here in this thread or in an other thread I already mentioned that I never did a waterpump or a seal change during major service when it was not leaking.
     

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