Hello Brotherhood, questioning if I ought to replace the water pump as the car is in for the engine out service? tech quoted "though there is minimal restriction when spinning the shaft, but you can somewhat hear a slight noise when free spinning". In my searching it seems that AW Italian has an upgraded metal impeller pump for about $650 and dealer is saying $400 for labor while engine is out. that's a quick $1,000 for a somewhat slight... Not sure if i should just go ahead and replace? I will likely (after the service) investigate putting the car up for sale. After more than 10 years of a loving relationship I just don't have the opportunity to take it out as it should. with 22k miles it always time rather than miles that dictates maintenance so someone ought to enjoy the in between more than i can currently. Any thoughts or comments appreciated as always!
Usually, so told me Mr.Toni of Toni Auto of Maranello, a water pump is done every two/three belt services even if it looks fine. The reasons are: 1) since you have an engine out you do all potential problematical works... 2) changing the belt/belts changes the tension on the pulley, slightly but changes, so water pump could start to leak retaining a sort o "tension memory". An owner of a 348, did a major service without changing the waterpump ...200km and pump leaked badly forcing the owner to do another engine out ...
Especially on a 348 where the water pump is used as a timing belt idle pulley, it is a real good idea to change it every 10 years or so.
I’d also suggest replacing the water pump. The noise you're hearing might mean it's getting worn out or could fail soon. It's usually smart to replace it before it causes any problems.
if in doubt replace it. double check the mating faces are flush as i know of one that had to be redone! $400 extra to replace the pump, whilst the engine is out? what 8 bolts and a new gasket or am I missing something? they charging you an hour $400? wow.
+1 to replace here. If it fails you're looking at another engine out just to fix it. If you want to save a few bucks you can just replace the bearing and shaft (Part 143742). That's usually what goes... But if I were you I'd just replace the whole thing.
i put an external elec water pump on my 348 and it works flawlessly and will take 15 mins to change if it ever goes bad ive ran it for over 100k miles and thats no bulls@It my factory waterpump quit and i was not pulling the motor for that so i adapted and overcame
Dear friends, I had always a bad engine cooling ,(348TS) but it was not really a problem, but after changing the timing belt i get suddenly wrong and overheating. By Ferrari they says always changing the water pump - but I think why, the bearing is perfect - I build out the engine for the second time , and open the water pump - look at photo 2 the original impeller was totally damaged, and I have to made a new bronze impeller at the milling machine. But I think what happens ? there must something dropped into the upstanding water tube- in that case it felt down direct into the impeller, and made this damaged. but now is the plastic impeller broken, but with the bronze impeller can the damage be much more - so, I made and place a rvs strainer into the water inlet tube,(photo 3) and if there get something in the water stream into the pump, the strainer catch the object. Note, if you made a strainer it must be made like the photo because the streaming must be more like the thermostat inlet do , and if you made a impeller you must balance him. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
A strainer like that will be a huge flow restriction and is totally unnecessary. Your impeller is bad from prior damage from a bad bearing and the impeller was reused. The car does not need modifications, it needs proper service.
Proper service - you are right my friend go to a Ferrari dealer = 100% OK. No problem - But the streaming now is OK - NO restriction - and the bearing is NOT bad - it works perfect now - this is my decision, and you do it your way. Best regards.
No one said you have to have a Ferrari dealer do the work, people do proper service all the time who are not dealers. Im curious what you think got into a sealed system around all the bends and turns to damage that impeller and where that debris is now.
I think Brian meant "the bearing went bad, the impeller moved closer to the engine block and broke off a few pieces along the edge. The water pump was rebuilt with a new bearing and new seal (a kit) but the impeller was not replaced"
I read further on this site, and read there are after market water pumps with METAL impeller !!! What is wrong with the plastic (high density Ertacetal ) ? I made a bronze impeller, live in Belgium, but also in the USA are graduated engineer who make no problem to do the same, for us is it easy. I give also the figures for the strainer - the by pass in the thermostat = 27m/m = r x r x 3.14 = surface opp 572.265 square mm -the strainer is round from 70mm pressed spherical shape but the filter = also 35 x 35 x 3.14 =3846.5 square mm this, with 50% by pass = 1923.25 square mm these figures are only for the technician, they understood there is no restriction at all . Now the dimension from the bronze impeller - original have the "plastic" impeller 1mm clearance between the impeller and the housing ( Ferrari manual )- I am graduated in producing 60Hrc high precision machinery parts for robot industries - my impeller have 0.5 mm clearance at both site - Friends if the bearings are bad - the pump shall made a big noise - my pump run smooth now !! The bearing = 100% OK ! And also important less clearance = higher water press, and more streaming. I can only imagine this is no normal wearing, even if the bearing is bad, it shall give not the result like this, or have other reader seen this before ? But my wife have in the kitchen Tupperware boxen and after years the "plastic" begin to brake in parts at corners , just the same like the impeller. Is it indeed possible, the problem is the "plastic", and the reason from after marked with the metal impeller ? Friends, I am may be not at my place on this site. There are more reactions from people who produce nothing. Image Unavailable, Please Login
If it were not for people fixing non existent problems this place would not have nearly as much content as It does. You just can't help some people.
Rifledriver, that is a clear answer , my work is received in this group like a bad amateur - I must leave this Ferrari chat and asks the forum to remove my blogs.
Looking at the first picture that Ronald showed, it is very interesting how all fins of the plastic impeller were worn in a similar semi-circular pattern. I do not see how this "nice" wear pattern could have been created by an object stuck in the pump. The impeller fins look like they have been slowly "eaten" by something. And this, I believe, was by fairly strong cavitation occurring in the pump over time. If this presumption is correct, then I would not insert any strainer in the system as it does introduce some restriction (which can further increase chances of pump cavitation) and would otherwise be unnecessary. Instead, I would look for what caused so strong pump cavitation. Some of the factors I can think of: 1. Frequent engine running at high RPM (combined with "tired", somewhat brittle, plastic of the impeller). 2. Partial restriction somewhere in the cooling circuit like partially blocked radiators. 3. Running at lower than specified cooling system pressure (incorrect or faulty cap on the header tank). Otherwise, I think Ronald has done a great job with machining a new impeller. It will probably last much longer than the original plastic but it will not be immune to damage by cavitation (if the reasons for it are not sorted out). Also, the design of the impeller with straight radial fins performs rather poorly where pump cavitation is concerned.
This is a good answer to think about -1) I drive this car more slowly - if we drive crazy, the police take the car impound.But I am not holy, I drive fast with the Maserati 2800cc 265Km /h until today I lost nothing but the car cost only 9000$ . I bought the Ferrari second hand 9yeer ago I dismantle the car complete, engine and cylinder heads to, but have no open the water pump !! - this was a mistake from me because the car has poor cooling, but keep in mind I had no experience with the F119 engine.-- 2) I place 3 new radiators 9 jeers ago , this car is standing still most of the time. 3) this moment I work at number 3 the cooling system must bee some influence - the cap or the thermostat I work on it. Of course, a strainer is not normal, but I want take not any risk, if I have drop per accident something in the cooling system, and it come now in the bronze impeller, the damage is than enorm. But what I write is practically impossible their were no scratches at the aluminum housing round the impeller, so the idea cavitation is the best possible mind. What I am doing ! a new pump cost only 600€ !!! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I don’t think there are any plastic impeller pumps available. I have only seen metal impellers. I can’t remember the issues with sourcing water pumps. Ricambi had the best easily available pumps of the highest quality. There were some poorly rebuilt ones and a guy who did a good rebuild who retired. With any pump you get check the clearances before install and during install with gasket. I have had wrong clearances where the impeller scraped.
I was going to mention the possibility that someone had mixed Glycol and OAT coolants in the past which would have clogged the radiators but, since you installed new rads, this is not relevant. As you also mentioned, malfunctioning (not opening fully) thermostat could be another factor contributing to cavitation. It is also possible that, before you bought the car, it was experiencing pump cavitation for some reason which caused damage to the pump. This could have been due to partially clogged old radiators. You replaced the radiators but, since you did not inspect/repair the water pump at that time, you still had poor cooling due to "eaten" impeller fins. With good radiators and now a good water pump, you may no longer have cavitation and your cooling should be efficient.
I place a new thermostat and the problems are gone ! --The cooling is perfect now --I do not mix coolants I buy it in 5L box -- It must be cavitation ! Not inspection the water-pump was a big mistake, I do not know what happen before 9 years ago. For me, this is not a disaster - I copy everything, and did before for the Maserati - original it was cast iron, but it color the cooling water, but look at the vins - they have an other (better shape ) - an other blame for me, I had to make an impeller for the Ferrari with the Maserati vin shape. To change the thermostat is no problem, but to remove the strainer is more difficult - I let it in place. The lesson we have to take - buy a new water pump. I thanks my friends for the conversation . Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
why appears the problem now, after 9 years - if I control the thermostat and put it in hot water (80°) he opens fully no problem , but in the engine, he opens, and cut of the internal streaming, but the thermostat had no more power to open further - the little under spring is now strong enough, and the streaming from the radiators is to low, overheating follows. Cavitation was 9 years present, but with full open thermostat was the problem not visible. The water themp 90° !!! it must bee a warning.
