how many of you would like to see the us gp returned to watkins glen? i'm sure many of you are getting tired of our national race being run on tracks which are truly wannabe road coarses at best and silly parking lot autocrosses at worst.(think big-d) the glen has more history packed into 1 corner than all of the other tracks combined. surely some enterprising group could purchase this venue and bring it up to fia standards. admittedly it would probably cost an astronomical sum, but i think it would be money well spent. not to mention the prestige of having a truly american race once again! lack of safety you say. well the lesmo and parabolica were tamed, but more importantly monza still exhists today.no italian gp would ever be permitted to run at any other track except there! talk about patriotism. why not watkins glen?
I attended every F1 race at The Glen from 1971-1980, so I'm a big fan, but I don't think it will happen. NASCAR controls the track and they will never be able to co-exist with Bernie and his crew.
The biggest issue, hotel rooms. Just not enough to make the cut. The close second issue, access to the Glen, not many 747's fly into town. Third issue, the track would need a complete rebuild, might as well build somewhere completely new that meets requirement #1 and #2. Like Orlando or Miami. For now Indy meets all of these requirements as an FIA approved facility. Unless a race fan wins the powerball lottery, and builds a new facility and then submits to the economic requirements imposed by Bernie, having no concern to making a profit on an F1 event, Indianapolis remains the only venue with hotel rooms and transportation access. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Absolutely unrealistic. Try seeing a race on Belle Isle in person before bashing it. The park like setting in the middle of a city works great and Penske did a fantastic job with the facilities.
+1 It is a shame, my first F1 race was at Watkins Glen, I attended the Skip Barber school at the Glen the year before they put that ridiculous chicane at the end of the back straight, and it is the site of my first race win (which puts me ahead of Danica in that department ). It is still my favorite track to run on, I will be there for the PCA event at the end of May.
Don't get me wrong, except for Koenigg and Cevert, the Glen gave me some of my most enjoyable racing moments. And my hearing loss (thanks Matra!!). In the early 90's I was given a consulting job by a serious $$$ group wanting to build an FIA approved facility with F1 and LeMans style potential. My regular business is commercial real estate. Criteria included plenty of hotel rooms (minimum 25,000) within 15 miles, access by commercial air direct from Europe and South America within 15 miles, access to interstate highways and mass transit within 5 miles and connecting to the airport, reasonable land costs, weather for year around use and testing (additional revenue to pay for things), friendly zoning officials, and diversional activities for families (primarily of the race teams), and a resident population of 2.5 million in the surrounding 15 mile radius. So after almost six months, on a points system, I came up with what I consider the best venue in North America: Orlando. Orlando had everything, except at the time the resident population. FYI, Las Vegas was a very very distant third (direct access from Europe was limited). Phoenix was fifth or sixth, I am too old to remember the complete top ten. Atlanta, New Orleans, Dallas/Houston, were all in there. I do remember that weather pulled Atlanta down the list. No existing race facility made the top ten. It would cost way to much to buy (owners I approached wanted exhorbitant prices) and then remodel. It was cheaper to start fresh. There was a very serious rumor that Tony George, Michael Eisner, and A.J. Foyt were looking to build an F1 ready track on Disney property about the same time. I could never get a straight answer except that ultimately TG built a road course within IMS. I assumed this group was also thwarted by the high cost, and already having grand stands, parking, and the #1 name in motorsports, the Indy course made sense. They did build a very nice oval for IRL at DisneyWorld that is now used by the Richard Petty Experience A close second was Miami. Miami had higher land costs but also had the resident population requirement. They also had municipal officials that understood motor sports, especially F1. But the cost projection even in that period killed the deal. Land, facilities(4.5 mile variable road course, concrete granstands for 50,000), and transportation connectors, legal fees, etc, were over $250 million in Orlando, $300 million+ in Miami. Today, I would add another 30% to these totals. One of the highest potential sources of revenue to any race track is NASCAR, but they said they would not race so close to Daytona. They were also in negotiations to buy out Ralph Sanchez for Homestead, so that was out also. The facility would have to survive on one F1, potentially two major sports car events, the hope that the SCCA runoffs could be enticed to leave I think Mid Ohio at that time, and year around testing by race teams and auto manufacturerers. The idea of a drag strip using the front straight was dropped at the beginning, I don't remember why (I am beginning to sound like Ronald Reagan). Now you see why I keep defending Indianapolis and TG, better to watch F1 on the go kart track than no F1 at all in the USA. And I give Tony George big credit for trying. He makes enough money from the Indy 500 and NASCAR, he did not need the headache of F1 and Bernie. Except for year one when most of the world showed up, I would think TG and Indy lost money on F1 in the subsequent years.
Yep. T5 used to be the real separation between the men and the boys, one of my favorite (still pretty good in a fast car) corners... J.D. RIP
The first 4 auto races - of any kind - that I ever attended were the 1975 thru 1978 U.S. Grands Prix at the Glen. I'd love to see the race return there, but the chances are slim or none. And I think the "third issue" listed above is the showstopper - to bring the track to modern standards would effectively involve rebuilding from scratch, and the results would be so antiseptic that none of us old-timers would like it. As I intensely dislike anything at IMS besides the Indy 500, I never went to a GP there, and I never would if it came back. If I want to go to a GP in North America, I'll stick to Montreal.....
I did the Skip Barber school the week after McDuffie's fatal accident at that corner. At that corner, two sections of the old chain link fence were replaced by brand new, shiny chain link fencing that you could see with your periphreal vision as you turned in. We were supposed to be able to take turn 5 flat out by the third day, seeing that fencing while doing so was a real test of testicular fortitude for a rookie driver. Fortunately the only accident of the week occured when someone caught his rear tire on the turtles coming out of turn 8. He wrote off the chassis...
The Race should be moved to Miami from Indy. I'm sure that with all of the South American investors living in Miami they could find the $$ to build a facility. ;D
how many of you would like to see the us gp returned to watkins glen? i'm sure many of you are getting tired of our national race being run on tracks which are truly wannabe road coarses at best and silly parking lot autocrosses at worst. +100 More through luck than planning, the ALMS race round the astrodome in Houston has bitten the dust..... Elkhart Lake, Road America, Mont Tremblant, Sebring,Laguna Seca and the Glen..... all good but more needed.
I've been to every US GP at Watkins Glenn from 1968 to 1980... seen them all... even if I was a tiny child back in the early 70's... I remember seeing Jackie Steward land by Helicopter right next to our car... he patted me on the head, got his autograph etc.. Met all the great ones up there, Fittapaldi, Lauds, Reuteman, Jones, Villeneuve, etc.... Loved going to the "Glenn" we used to have standing reservations every year at the Glen Motor court, and at Montagne the restaurant... it was great! & talk about cold ... when its cold and raining in mid October in the finger lake region ... its COLD!!! As for modern F-1 to come back to the USA... doubt if it will really happen.. there is just not enough money here. I think you could modify the Glenn to a FIA standard... there is lots of room, the money would be huge to get it there, but still could be raised, the only issue is how do you make a profit with F-1... FOM takes all the cash, and leaves the promoter with $0.00!!! thats the problem. If the major manufacturers got involved that may sway FOM to relent a bit, but I would seriously doubt with the credit crunch going on now, that we see an F-1 race in the USA for at least 5 - 10 years... if its even called F-1 then. I think if you were going to hold a race, I would target Atlanta... not just cause I live here, but Road Atlanta is a good track, could be "elevated" to FIA spec without too much trouble, it already makes money, so if you had the right title sponsor it could work... access to air travel easy, high end life style done, good weather, and the economics to make it work. Thing is Don Panoz aint gonna put a $ into F-1....he makes money dosent loose it!
WGI is a great track! Alas, F1 there would be hard due to problems othes have mentioned. A very slow 2:26 lap in a Ferrari 308 can be seen at http://enjoythetrack.com/video/ .
It is my understanding that the new track outside of Dallas (Eagle's Canyon?) was built to FIA specs. I seem to recall that Dallas has a pretty big airport. It is really too bad that the place is populated by A-holes. Dale
ya know, there are so many nay-sayers in this world it's amazing anything ever gets accomplished. kennedy said "we will put a man on the moon before this decade ends." von braun almost choked on his cheerios. ya know what, he got 'em there and gottem home in '69! so what's the big deal about bringing the glen back from the dead? no 747's, no hotel rooms for 25,000, no way to get into the track with transporters. geez, what planet are you folks from? how did we ever have f1 races there to begin with? it took imagination, guts, a little ca$h, but above all, it took the will to do it! do you suppose if i could get my buddy greg norman to design a new pga golf course down at the beaver dams (on the way up to watkins) that would be incentive to build a few hotels, put in a few condos, and shake a little mordida free from the local politicos, that roads could be improved and this area could be opened up to a little international attention? i'll bet sir jackie would be one of the first to tee off. the finger lakes region is a damned fine place to vacation. nothing like a little push to get things started. the bottom line.... nothing ever happens if people stand around and chant "it can't". seems to me if we want our national race to have a proper home, i say "it can!"
oh yeah, if we insist on 747's landing and places for rich folks to pee, how about bringing riverside up to snuff. that's where the us gp was held on/off during the '50s. and all the amenities are within a decent drive to lax.
Just Marketing Pres. Zak Brown and Tony George have been meeting with FIA officials and Bernie. Like to have something in stone by Aug. The manufacturers want to be back. So they are having real meetings. Google this Brown and the subject. I could link all to the topic on the Speed TV boards but it will make your head hurt. Let's do it on the Strip and all the others ideas heard before. Ideas of some becoming reality with other peoples money? Usually not.
If it can be done, then you should do it. To use your rather arrogant question in reverse, what planet are YOU from? I looked, this isn't April 1 yet, so you must be serious. This is not 1976, much has changed. Originally, F1 teams used smaller transporters back then, if you have seen the photos of the McLaren and Ferrari paddock "welcome centers" you would understand the need for the proper transport system. Today's F1 drivers that are paid an average of $6.5 million/yr do not stay at the Glen Motor Lodge, they stay at 4+ star hotels, even if the driver is brought to the track by heliocopter from 20 miles away. An F1 event costs approx four times more than a NASCAR event, that is BIG $$$$, F1 team budgets are as high as $700 million annually. And today it takes much more than "a little cash". Your buddy Greg Norman, even with his personal wealth, could not on his own accomplish this today. You might get Jackie Stewart to play golf at your proposed course, but you won't get Bernie Ecclestone close without his multi million dollar up front fee. BTW, the requirements for hotel rooms, transport, etc, came from a discussion one of these investors had with Bernie and Max. Bernie makes the rules, he basically owns F1. The Finger Lakes area is absolutely beautiful, no doubt. I loved going there. But unless you can find a way to house over 80,000 spectators (that's the breakeven number using the 1991 costs), then its not going to happen. At $150 each, 75 % (at least in 1991) people with that kind of money for a race stay in hotels not tents. I am sure that percentage will have changed somewhat now with the increase of nice motorhomes. Look at it however you like, but unless the money invested is not interested in a return, the simple math is, its not going to happen, especially Watkins Glen. This is not at all being negative, it is being understanding of the "reality of business". This isn't a matter of just "willing it" and it happens. I have been "willing it" for Halle Berry and Heather Locklear to do a three way me for the last 5 years, but Halle had to go and get herself knocked up by another man, so willing it didn't work. But I would VERY happy if you would please prove me wrong. About both the Glen and the Halle/Heather thingie.
Where you been? Riverside is now primarily a residential development. You know, highest and best use.
Hey I'm all for it, I know all the guys at Allsport and Some of the folks at FOM... you put up the cash, I'll do the deal! all its gonna take is $$$. how bad do you want it!
