Hey Gary, yeah, you're right, that's exactly what I was thinking; you can't afford a GT3 but you can afford a 430. You are sharp!
For me, I don't care much... I would rather drive the F430 for 8:09 than a 997GT3 for 8:00 any day...
What is the point of this post? Many of us prefer a 430 over a GT3 regardless of times posted. I cannot imagine any mature adult with the wherewithal to buy a GT3 driving around the city with that silly looking ricer wing on the backend. My god are you aware what a wannabe you look like? Tell me, are you going to wear your helmet and fire resistant suit and gloves when you drive it around town? If you take it to the track fine. But driving around the city? Sad very sad.
I think this thread is meant for the "Grand Theft Auto" crowd. They're the only ones who think that laptimes at the Ring mean anything. Some people will just never have the opportunity to know the truth (thank God!).
The point of the post was a response to another post. Nothing more, nothing less. Is that too difficult for you to comprehend? BTW, what's your point? I'm blessed to own, and have owned, F cars, P cars, muscle cars, etc. And if all goes well, I'll be posting photos of my newest F car in the next week or so! Lucky me! I'll take being a "wannabe" any day!! By the way, are you saying any owner of a GT2 or GT3 etc. is not a "mature adult" or a "wannabe" in your book? What about C.S. drivers, is it "sad" when they drive their cars on the street? You are a tad myopic. In other words, you don't have a clue.
That is exactly what I am saying. And yes I have clue. You are in left field and need to get a grip. Buy your GT3 but don't disparage other cars and those that buy them. BTW that hideous tail on the GT3 suits you perfectly. It screams; "Look at me I am a racer. Can't you tell" BTW if you haven't noticed Ferrari uses and designs their cars in a wind tunnel. The are beyond using gadgets on their cars.
Wow, for the first ten posts or so, I thought I was on Rennlist! If it helps, I have a 430 and a 996 GT3. I drive the Porsche mostly on the track and it's set up with a roll bar, race seats, harnesses, negative camber, racing pads and R compound tires. The 430 is bone stock. At the track, the Ferrari on street tires with lousy brakes (stock pads overheat after one lap, Ferodos on the way, thanks Gary) is about 1-2 seconds a lap slower than my GT3. I am very confident that a set of R compounds and better pads would more than eliminate the difference and the 430 would cruise away from the GT3. I don't plan to track my 430, the odd outing yes but the Porsche is my track toy. On the other hand, I would happily take the Ferrari on a 400 mile drive. I would not take the GT3 on such a drive unless I was going to a track when I got there. I fully agree with those who feel that 'ring times are nearly meaningless. I have read that the GT3 997 was on R compound tires. That alone could make a 9 second difference in lap times. On my home track, Michelin Cups are nearly 4 seconds a lap faster than Michelin Pilot Sport II street tires. That's the spread between 1:51 and 1:55 at Le Circuit Mont Tremblant. At the 'ring, the difference could be more than 9 seconds given the fact that a lap is four times longer. The F430 is a very fast car. Are there faster cars for less money? Sure, but they aren't Ferraris and that counts for a lot. Rgds,
So, the many other F Chat guys who happen to own or have owned both GT2 and GT3 cars are all "immature"? But if we drive only Ferraris we are mature? Isn't your thinking just a little immature? I think the GT3 suits me pretty well too! That's why I ordered one! I plan to track mine a lot! And yes, I want, in my dreams, to be a racer -- just like Mario Andretti -- can't you tell? BTW, that's why I want an F40 too, to be a "racer"! BTW, do you think F40 owners scream, "Look at me I am a racer. Can't you tell (sic)"? Who is disparaging "other cars"? I think that would be YOU! Who is taking shots at GT3s and their owners? YOU! I love F cars and P cars. Unlike you, I'm not the least bit threatened by either. LOL! Thanks for pointing that out genius. I never knew Ferrari tests their designs in a wind tunnel. It took a fountain of automotive knowledge like you to educate me. So tell me, is the wing on an F40 or an F50 a "gadget"? Is it "hideous"? Or is it just a "gadget" or "hideous" on a Porsche?
575Mike, are you having a bad day? A little harsh I would say. Take a few deep breathes before you post. I have owned many Porsches and a few Ferraris. I have not been had the opportunity to own an F-car that is faster than what I have been able to afford in a P-car, that said, no P-car I have owned has stirred the senses the same way Ferrari has. Isn't that what owning cars like this is what it's all about? If you want the fastest track car stop messing around and buy a real racecar. If you want the fastest streetcar for the money, then buy a new Z06 and go to a GM forum. Porsche has almost always beat Ferrari in the performance vs dollar ratio, who cares? Ferrari is stil the better car all around IMO.
BTW, since the first 997 turbo n'ring time made public by porsche was "just" 7:49 and the Z06 was rumoured to be faster, the same people who worshiped the ring time in the past then said "turbo is for road use, not for the track".
Nah, just enter both in the FIA GT series and see who wins the championship. If it isn't real racing it's just overglorified magazine comparisons. So is it worse that my cheap 308 is fast enough for me compared to the prices both Porsche and Ferrari want for their latest and "greatest"?
Ferrari should send their best man to the Nordschleife tomorrow with a 430 CS on real good tyres (future stock option) and a stiffer suspension setup. I don't see Walter Röhrl giving everything in a 430. He is paid by Porsche. Hallo?! cinque
Well said - laptimes only count in an actual race. In the real world, where most of us enjoy our cars (whether on road or track) surely other variables such as handling, stability, feel, noise, styling and pure desirability count far more than what goes round the 'ring fastest. And while opportunities to really push cars such as these are diminishing, surely the pure thrill of driving one of these machines around a track like the Nurburgring is far more significant than the actual time it takes to do it! Despite being a Porsche fan, I think they have a very different type of appeal to Ferraris, so if I had the means, I'd rather commute by bus and enjoy an F430 at the weekends than have a GT3 for fun and an M3 or similar as a daily driver! But as always, it's each to his own...
I respect the opinion of many posters here but I do feel sometimes that Ferrari-tinted spectacles do need to come off... (or a least reduce their tint!) After years of driving Ferraris, I bought my first Porsche - a MK2 GT3. It was sooo good I bought a GT3 RS a mere 5 months later. If you think that a Porsche is unable to stir the soul, I challenge you to feel the same after driving my GT3RS. Porsche are undoubtedly diluting their product range but they still know how to make a FAB super-fast road racer. It is a rip snorting macho bastard of a Porsche with absolutely LOADS of road presence and wow factor (despite London being FLOODED with Porsches) and NO driver aids that FORCE driver involvement. There are around 100 of them here in the UK and they have been a rarer sight in London for me than the Enzo In my opinion, the 430 is a much inferior driving experience to the Challenge Stradale. For my (somewhat unique tastes) the 430 is a cruiser and anyway, should it matter, most stated lap times put it behind the 996 GT3RS in terms of outright speed Regardless, the normal MK2 GT3 is as fast as a stradale which is some feat for the little Porsche - with a few tweaks of the suspension it is just as quick in the corners too if not quicker. More importantly - my own experience and extrapolating from my ownership of the normal MK2 GT3 indicate my GT3 RS is at LEAST equal to the CS as a track OR fast road car but actually FASTER. Unfortunately, you US guys haven't had the chance to sample this car My RS dynoed over 403hp+ bone stock. (porsche quote 381hp). The new front suspension has totally transformed steering and front end grip. To go a bit further still I spent just $500 getting a new geometry setup for fast road/stage 1 track usage (as the entire suspension is adjustable including anti-roll bars): Turn-in is absolutely incredible and outright grip is beyond belief. In roll-ons with 360s, I have driven literally past them while they wring the engines neck to the redline. Against a MASSIVELY modified 443hp 360CS (whose dyno was presented here) there was absolutely NOTHING between us in a straight line. The 997GT3 will likely dyno above 420hp, it has 996 RSR type suspension, (homologated via 996 GT3RS) and will I am of the opinion it will absolutely obliterate the 430. This is natural given that old generation 996 GT3RS is a faster car than the 430. However the KEY point is that with the PASM suspension and traction control fitted as standard to the 997 GT3 people will no longer be able to complain that the we are not comparing like for like. (i.e road racer GT3 VS production 430). When cruising, the car will be compliant and when pressing on it will transform into the roadracer it really is. So you get a car which is as comfy as a 430 but ultimately quicker on road AND track and that too it will SUBSTANTIALLY faster. Ferrari will have to respond with a more focused 430 because for really keen drivers the 997GT3 represents an unmissable proposition. When the 430 CS comes out, the 997 RS will also be available and battle can continue!
Why? I love it when everyone keeps comparing the entry level car with basically Porsche's flagship. Good thing most of you don't work in the marketing department in Maranello...
Good thing you don't either.... Must look real nice to the guys in Marketing when a £85,000 Porsche 911 can out accelerate, out handle, out comfort and out-track a £140,000 Ferrari 430. And, because of this, like the 360, residuals start collapsing after the initial rush to have the lastest Ferrari is over.
It does look good to them, that's the thing about marketing, how do you ge the most value for your product. There is a 3+ year waiting list on the car, regardless of what else is out there in the market. Ferrari could care less about 360 residuals. They're in business to sell new cars. On some of the 360s, the sale was made 6+ years ago. Ancient history to a car company...
I understand... and I actually agree.... But this is a very short-termist strategy.... we don't want to see 10 year old Ferraris at absolutely rock-bottom prices.. It hurts the ENTIRE brand image. For this reason Ferrari ought to ensure that each generation of it's higher-volume models represent the cutting edge. And that "cheapo" Porsches don't represent a technologically more advanced/superior driving proposition. Numbers (track times/performance etc) matter.... it's a shame but it's true.. the worst is still to come.. the 997 TT reportedly does 0-100mph in 7.9seconds!!!!!
Thats huge! Think about 10 laps into a race on that 90s track, that "tiny 1.5 sec" is now 15 sec. Count it out. The GT3 will be out of sight.
People still pay way too much for a lot of cars (S class Benz, Bentley, etc...) that plummet once you drive them off the lot. It's the standard business model for the industry. Create the want, people will still buy. Ferrari only has to find ~5000 suckers/year to keep the doors open. As for rock bottom prices, the V12 2+2s are pretty much fully depreciated after 10 years and that is the so called "flagship" model short of the supercars. That car doesn't seem to effect the overall balance of the universe any.
*SOME* customers make up the minority, remember, you used to be able to get 355s out of a dealer's inventory not that long ago. It was still a better product that a similar Porsche. Hell, I know people that got discounts off of them. There just has to be one more person that wants on than available cars to keep the prices up. Performance started falling around 1977 with the advent of emission standards, yet with the exception of the 308 GT/4 being not very well loved in the market, you can see a steady increase of both the MSRP and the units sold. The glory days in sportcar racing were in the 50's and 60's. Once Porsche got very competitive, Ferrari withdrew to "focus" on F1. Again, read the company's statements, they are a F1 team that builds cars to support their racing team. i.e. no matter how good a customer you are paying the bills, you're still playing second fiddle to the company's main interest...
how about let us pick the flagship model for the current Ferrari range? Hmm i really doubt a 599GTB will post a quicker time than a 997GT3 around racing tracks.
