WE HAVE A PROBLEM

Gee, imagine that. The flagship model is a GT car. And Porsche doesn't make a high performance GT car.

Hmmm, is it possible that each of these (relatively) low volume manufacturers understands the best niches that they can dominate?

 

This is a good post.
There is only one thing I take issue with - I actually don't believe Ferrari. I believe they're a sports car manufacturer with the F1 team being an partial extension of their marketing department. The old days where all that mattered was F1 (i.e when Enzo himself was around) have gone......

 

This is a sensationally stupid post.

 

I understand your point but disagree. Look at the balance sheet. They actually make more from licensing fees than selling road cars. They also make a rediculously low amount of profit off of the whole effort (which is probably why the IPO has been delayed as long as it has been, this is not a "high growth" or "high value" company from an economic standpoint).

Let's face it, there is probably a better margin in the coffee cup sales than in a F430. Assume a 20% margin on the final MSRP on the F430 and a 50% margin on the coffee cup and you need to sell 5333 mugs to equal the same profit as the car...

 

Is there really a problem? Who has the problem?

I give credit to Peter for this thread, and I see his point, but the premise is flawed. There is no problem or issue!

Unless you place importance in silly statistics that don't mean much when it's just you and your car on a spirited drive on a sunny morning, the so called problem is an illusion.

When it's just you and your car -- whether you are in a Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette or Subaru WRX -- the only thing that matters is what YOU feel at the moment, not what some professional race driver or automotive journalist writes in a magazine.

What I don't understand is how some enthusiasists are threatened by those who choose to drive other marques. I give so called "rice rockets" a lot of credit because they have a passion for their cars. I don't thumb my nose at those guys and gals, or make fun of their cars. I admire their passion. Passion is what makes life fun! They don't have "a problem", why should I?

When I hear the sound of a Ferrari V8 at full wail, singing at 8,000 RPM, do you think it matters a wit whether another car lapped some race track, 2000 miles away, a few seconds faster? Do you think I have a problem during those few glorious seconds? Of course not!

There is no problem! There is only your car and you! That's all that matters.

Every day is a good day! Just a suggestion: Perhaps you might want to take a deep breath and read prior posts before you hand out advice? For example, is it being "a little harsh" to question the maturity of GT3 drivers as "nBerry" did? I think that's a little harsh, don't you?

BTW, the wheels on your 360 are incredible! Stunning car!

 

Really? I have no trouble despatching 360 CS's at all. (that comment is not meant to be inflammatory).

 

Well, we disagree on that, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I considered both the CS and the F430 when I sold my 360, and finally went with the 430 in large part because of the availability of three pedals. I don't want to start that whole snarl up again, but to me the involvement factor of a pure manual gearbox is worth a lot. And I don't find the 430 soft or cruiser-like at all, it's a very intense car, but I will grant the CS is even more so...but then, how close to "race car on the street" do you want to get? To me the 430 is the perfect compromise, not that I wouldn't consider a 430CS (or whatever) if and when it comes along.

Gary

 

And the Z06 beats Porsche in performance per dollar, and a modded STI beats the Z06, and...ad infinitum.

Gary

 

That is the key point in this discussion. If performance is all your after there are many cars out there which with slight modifications will spank Ferrari's, Porsche's or other high end cars.

Mike, your right, I should not have been so "over the top" in my comments and I apologize. However I was quite serious regarding driving around in ANY car that has a huge tail on the back. Fortunately, up to now Ferrari designs its cars in a wind tunnel.

 

Thats a pretty close minded statement . However its your right . I love seeing F40's , Porsche GT3 , RSRs around town . Hardcore nuts like me driving them .

 

No hard feelings. Sorry if I was a little aggressive.

By the way, I basically ordered my 430 the same as you! Your car is breathtaking! You just need to put a wing on the back to complete the car!

 

Wow, first f-chat arguement settled in a reasonable manner, congratulations guys .

 

This generation of Porsches are the most beautiful and talented 911s ever. And they more than give Ferrari something to think long and hard about, especially for the price premiums. Bravo Porsche.

This GT3 is probably the only sports car I've ever seen that is actually attractive in white.

I am not at all a Porschephile but it looks to be several steps up from the 996 GT3 in every respect, especially aesthtics, inside and out. I've never seen a rear wing so well designed and used. It's clearly intended for the track. And the sound......pure music.....

But Ferrari will respond, though perhaps not directly to this. The 430 has a great deal of untapped potential in many areas. In some ways it was the CS and the 430 that pushed Porsche to improve the way they've improved. This is the nature of competition, even indirect competition. And it is good.

Does anyone know how much faster the GT3 is than the Carrera GT around the Ring? That would be interesting to see.


Many thanks for the video,



Cavallini

 

Ouch, Mike you know how to hurt a guy.

Cavallini, the GT3 is not faster than the CGT around the Ring? If you mean the how much faster the CGT is over the GT3 you are looking at close to 10sec. The CGT is around 7:32. The 997 GT3 estimate is in the mid 40's. BTW, the 997TT probably will do the Ring faster than the GT3. With Cup tires they are quoting 7:41sec.

 

Thanks for that Nberry. I don't know what I was thinking. LOL. Think before you post, no? LOL.

Don't you think that with the 997 TT/GT3 Porsche has for the first time crept very close to Ferrari in the gray areas of physical beauty and presence, and "soul"?

It looks that way to me and I've never wanted to own a Porsche other than the CGT but as I watched that video I felt a small pang of desire to own one.

This, more than anything, should concern Ferrari. If I can derive as much driving pleasure, aesthetic joy, and equal or superior performance from a Porsche that costs $50K less than a Ferrari, why would I wait two years for a Ferrari?

Your thoughts,



Cavallini

 

You said it all. I agree wholehartedly. I had a GT3 and now the CS and while one can argue about the slight difference in performance (on the track) one certainly cannot argue which car gets your automotive juices flowing.

Bottom line-a Porsche is a Fraulein but a Ferrari is a mistress.

 

God NO! The 997TT even among Porschephiles is considered one ugly car. It is a Rube Goldberg design in an effort by Porsche to deferentiate their models. They all look alike and Porsche is now becoming very sensitive to the issue. They went overboard with the TT.

The 997 GT3 tail design was changed again to make it look different from the 996GT3. They gave it a aerokit look again trying to make it look different from the 997 model. What I will acknowledge is Porsche white is one of the better white colors on the market.

Regarding soul, I have driven several Porsches including the TT. To me it is a sterile experience. The TT with AWD lacks sensation and movement. However, clearly it is a top notch performer as is the GT3.

Porche takes the Germanic approach to cars. Their main concern is function. Styling, passion and excitement are not built into their cars.

 

You what Nick -I lurk here alot and when you make comments with gray matter instead of comments that are made looking down your nose they are actually enjoyable to read.

 

This is good to hear....

Although, I like the new designs, both the base 911, the TT and the GT3. They look more clear and confident and they definitely have more presence than the older Porsches, which truly looked like "suped up VWs".

Forza,


Cavallini

 

I could not agree more. The 997 is a lovely car and the GT3 must be an amazing car if we consider that not only she's faster than an F430 but even more usable on a day to day basis.

However, the F430 wins in the emotions department, which in my modest opinion that it is all when it comes to buy a car

this is what happens when you pop the bonnet of a 997GT3 and when you pop the one of an Italian mistress...
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Visually, no comparison....not even close.

 

Those pics spoke a thousand words!

 

I couldn’t agree more with you. The thing I don’t understand is why the Porsche being faster is a surprise. Personally I think it was to expect that the new 997 was going to be faster than the almost 2 year old 430. This said, I also am looking forward to the 430 CS or whatever it will be called.

The looks of the car are nearly as important to me as the performance because as said before, most of the time it’s the car and yourself.

Glad to see the differences worked out!