Webber made a 'mistake'.

Well yes, Williams are going through a horrible low right now. And it's not like they've taken much benefit from having Mark Webber on board, but hey, that's how it goes sometimes.

 

Unfortunately for Mark Webber, his own estimation of his talent does not match the reality of his talent.

He may have "no fond memories" of his time at Williams, but he was short on talent to be driving a Ferrari, Renault, McLaren or others.

I'm sure he'll be MUCH happier a Red Bull backing up Coulthard and fighting off Scott Speed, the BMW's and the rest of the also-rans.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

More than any other team, I think Williams did more to jack the cost of racing through the roof than any other team, save for the factory Renault turbocars that started in 1979.
Williams brought on board Saudia, and IIRC, TAG, some pretty high-dollar sponsors back then. And when Canon jumped on board, to the moon......

Yes, I know they were not alone, but they were the leaders by far.

 

I agree that he made a mistake, I also agree he may not be as good as he thinks, but he is still a very good driver and I wouldn't be suprised if he and the new Red Bull car make large gains in the 2007 season.

 

He definitively beat Heidfeld last year...there aren't too many faster drivers than that. He certainly deserves to be on a top team...

 

yeah, but Beating Heidfeld last year doesn't make webber that great, look how Heidfeld woke up since he got a fast guy as team mate.. Kubica has set Heidfeld on fire, while Webber didn't motivate him at all.

 

Yeah, Heidfeld is slow. He only beat Massa and Kimi. Oh wait....those two guys are on top teams. Maybe he isn't so slow after all? Webber is clearly fast. I believe in his first test for Williams (01 maybe?) he was faster than Fisi & Ralf in the same car...

 

I remember when Trulli was passing Webber on a long straight (forget the circuit) and, at the end, when Webber was obviously miffed that Trulli was getting the best of him, he swerved toward Trulli, forcing him to jerk the car out of the way (at over 200 MPH). When called on it in an interview, his response was (and I quote), "Boys will be boys". I lost all respect for him as a driver right then. You don't needlessly put other drivers' lives in danger in this way.

 

+1

Webber is a stiff. He'll be out of F1 in 3 years.

 

Beating Massa doesn't say much, Massa is as weak a driver as Heidfeld. Heidfeld beating Massa is like the Kansas City Royals beating the Tampa Bay Devil rays...who gives a ****?


As for beating Kimi, I guess you forgot that Heidfeld was a former F300 champion with a year's experience already as an F1 driver. Kimi, on the other hand, was fresh out of Formula Renault, with a grand total of 23 races to his credit. Yet Heidfeld barely out-pointed him and it was almost even in terms of qualifying position. Heidfeld, had he been any kind of driver, should have destroyed Kimi, instead he barely outpaced him. This was not unnoticed by McLaren who, despite having Heidfeld under contract, chose Kimi over him and, later, dropped him altogther.

This is hardly a ringing endorsement of Heidfeld's speed.

He is a midpack runner, a has-been, and a never-will-be.

 

So how do you really feel about him?

 

Schumi was fast instantly in an F1 car, Kimi was not? Schumi embarassed good drivers with little effort. It does not mean they are not good. Sure, Kimi was still probably on the learning curve, I doubt more than 3-4 in the F1 field could have done better than Heidfeld against Kimi. Is that what you consider "any kind of driver" as being? Do you only think the top 5 drivers on an F1 grid are good? Heidfeld still has only been 'beaten' by one driver, which was Webber.

Heidfeld is better than Massa, who many on this forum lovingly cling to.

 

I'm amazed at how few mistakes Massa has made this year... other than the first race where he fell of, he's done a great job..

unlike Webber, who has fallen off without help on numerous occasions while not even being put under any pressure.......

webber DOES have a quick lap in him, but not a race distance.

 

+1, I liked Webber, but it sounds like sour grapes.

 

I like him as an individual, actually. I think he has comported himself quite well, considering the general lack of respect he has been given in the F1 community and the embarrassment of being dropped by McLaren-Mercedes.

However, my assessment of his driving skills are completely objective. He is simply not a top-level driver.

 

I'm not sure how this is relevant to our discussion.

Sounds to me like this says more about Kimi's talent than it does Heidfeld's.

Yes.

This is hardly a ringing endorsement of Heidfeld. Webber is a mediocre driver.

I agree. I think Massa sucks as a driver. He got the Ferrari drive because his manager is Jean Todt's son, not on merit.

 

The nicest thing about next season is that a lot of the "issues" that we on F-Chat talk about will be "resolved"; how will KR do with a fast,reliable car? Is FA capable of re-building a team? With one tire manufacturer tires will be a non-issue.

One team I'm watching with great interest is Red Bull; Adrian Newey designed chassis, Renault or Ferrari power, and very deep pockets. I think they will be competitive and Webber needs to put up or shut up....beating DC would be a start.....

Deep pockets alone mean nothing...look at Toyota..(and the NY Yankees!!!)

 

I think this is a ridiculous question. McLaren is an organization with over 1,000 employees. Do you seriously think that Alonso is going to step in and start directing the entire team? When did he earn an honours degree in mechanical engineering or a doctorate in fluid dynamics? We have this myth going around that Schumacher re-built Ferrari singlehandedly and now every driver apparently is expected to live up to this false standard. This is moronic. Shumacher had Todt, Brawn, Byrne and who knows who else building the car. Schumacher was one, and only one, part of this team. He is no more capable of singlehandedly turning a team with hundreds, if not thousands, of employees into a winning team than you are of singlehandledly winning the World Series. The driver is part of the equation, but so are hundreds of other factors beyond his control.

The question is: can McLaren produce a car capable of winning and if so, will Alonso be able to produce another championship?

My guess is yes on both counts

Once again, each is only one cog in the wheel. Newey is a great designer but DC and Webber are stiffs and neither is a danger of becoming a winning driver let alone a championship contender. As little as I think of DC, there is no way that Webber will be faster. DC is a has-been but Webber is a Never-Will-Be. Red Bull is going nowhere next season.


The team to watch next season is Honda. If they can produce a competitive car and if Rubens can adjust his driving style to suit the car, that team could be a surprise. I am not completely sold on JB yet, I think the hype may be more than the talent, but I do think he is one of the few drivers on the grid that can be competitive with Alonso and Kimi on his day.

 

He'll crash it

 

Lets change this up a bit then, who are do you consider the 5 fastest drivers on the current F1 grid?

 

M. Schumacher
Alonso
Kimi
Montoya (yes, he belongs on this list)
Button

 

This is EXACTLY what I think of each time someone tries to state that Schumacher built the Ferrari team up from nothing to multiple world championships. News Flash: Schumacher is a DRIVER, not a manager. If anyone deserves credit for the team's success, it's Todt.
Sorry for the tangent.

 

I see four drivers currently on the F1 grid. I agree with that list. I think Webber would be 6th though.

 

I'm one of those morons that believe that Schumacher was a huge catalyst in rebuilding Ferrari. Along the lines of having the top quarterback in the NFL. A great quarterback, while not being a guarantee of victory will take you further then just having great coachs or a great defensive backfield. Yes I know there is a great highly technical car involved, but everything I ever read about Schumacher said he was the best at helping the engineers sort out the cars and then setting up the car on race day to maximize best performance. How about his consistent ability to run his fastest laps when absolutely necessary. To maximize his outlaps when needed etc.
Sorry I'm probably still a moron in your book, but I don't sit around being an armchair quarterback all the time.
And no this isn't a Michael F-Fest but the thing that I liked the best was his ability to love and celebrate every victory, while thanking his team and a giant smile on his face the entire time. His recognition of the team, hugging them all etc.IMO goes a long way toward building greatness.