Weight Lifting techniques and tips | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Weight Lifting techniques and tips

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Skidkid, Nov 19, 2021.

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  1. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    You are probably correct. Stretching isn't exactly what I need, I am VERY flexible. BUT, I am 61 and 6'6" so I would rather burn a bit too much gas up front and fail a bit early, than push to soon and risk injury. Of course, I only started training legs about 1.5 - 2 years ago so legs are my weakest point. I am also all natural, no PEDs.
     
  2. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    I should have made a quick vid for you guys. Back and shoulders last night, along with some core. Lawnmowers last night at the end of the session, went 100 x 6 x 3. And no, I don't believe in moving my body all over, twisting, etc. Body has to be still, just like standing curls. If I can't just lift it that way, the weight is too much. BTW I have no idea what my single rep max is on lawnmowers. I suspect it is 130+ but it isn't worth the risk to find out.

    I think I will send up some 135 scull crushers next week, just for fun. I will shoot a video of that and post.
     
  3. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    So how do you calculate your ladder? It looks a bit odd to me in that the steps are not uniform, they vary from step to step. I understand at the top, the steps often get smaller but some of yours get larger than the prior step.

    Also, how much volume do you do on volume days?
     
  4. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
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    Nice strength numbers, kudos!

    However, I genrally disagree with the strechting part; especially when starting a training with it.
    Think of if like hitting the throttle on your cold Ferrari engine; it needs to warm up first. All the fluids need to be distributed and warm before it's primed and ready to be taxed. Strechting is also puting stress on your muscles.
    Unless we're talking about dynamic stretching or light warm up excersies, that's a different ball game.
    But in general 20-30min is really too much time to get warm.
    Your set up for the deadlift is spot on, so I would do a bit dynamic work and get to it. Why waste time and energy!?
     
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  5. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
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    Initially I was going to comment on the bar movement, but then I realized you are very, very tall and did another few viewings. Form is nice and spot on.
    Well done sir!
     
  6. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
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    Ok, just so I understand correctly, your deadlift is the main 'attraction'of the day, correct?
    Your warm up consists of just the 2 sets of squats at bodyweight?
    Your first 'real' set is right after the squats is leg extensions to failure with no warm up sets?
    After the legg work you follow up with a more posterior chain/hamstring exercise the deadlift?
    Painfull right knee you mention....
    You said in a previous post that you do work with a personal trainer?
    Did he set up this programming for you or is this your idea?
    Do you do other leg work during the week or is this it?

    Sorry for the many questions, but when you are at your height and have a bad knee and you follow the above program, I do question the program (a lot) as it doesn't make sense with all due respect....! Don't want to sound like a ****, but this is setting you up for injury....

    For one, you never, ever, ever, ever (EVER) have someone with a bad knee start with leg extensions! It places the wrong stress on the wrong place at the wrong time in a program.
    Doing leg extensions to "pre-fatigue" quadriceps was a nice old school method bodybuilders used to do in the 80's and 90's (Tom Platz). We're (should be) much smarter these days.
     
  7. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    You misunderstood the sequence. I did the squats, Bulgarian lunges, leg extensions, curtsey lunges, and light leg press ALL before starting the first deadlift. Those leg extensions are no where near my max, they induce no pain. Once the knee is warmed up it has no pain; if it did, we would stop and change to something else.

    Yes, we will hit light legs other times in the week but there is generally only 1 bigger leg day. Sometimes deadlift, sometimes squats, etc. We switch around a lot.
     
  8. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    And thank you. Bar has to track up the leg. That is why I wear the crossfit shin guards; I got tired of the bruised and/or bloody shins.
     
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  9. HotShoe

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    Thanks.

    Unfortunately I have super tight hamstrings and poor ankle mobility. I’ve found I really need that time to get things warmed up and loose. It especially helps with back squats. It’s all really light and very easy but it seems to make a difference.

    Next time I’ll try less and see how it goes. Could just be I think it works out of habit.
     
  10. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

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    #185 Maximus1973, Aug 30, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
    Instead of doing stretches, try doing active work like body weight squats.
    Each warm up set you can try to do them a biot more explosive. Anotehr great way to activate more motor units for that additional explosiveness with deadlift/squats.

    Another option is to do a hamstring machine before doing deadlifts.squats.
    Especially doing 1 exercise before doing quads (squats/legg press) will improve your lifts actually.
    By doing 1 exercise (3-4 sets with 10-15 reps) of hamstrings first you will not fatigue them (even when going to failure) but you will activate them.
    Doing deadlifts and squats after will feel actually realy great. You will have more stability and 'feel' in your legs.
    Everyone is afraid of doing this first as "it may cost strength; and Lord forbid that's impossible", but the opposite is true for most lifters. They get a much much better connection and thus are stronger.
    Give it a try and let us know!
     
  11. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
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    OK, thanks for clearing that up.
    So you do Leg extensions at the end more or less of your session?
    I hope so as doing an isolation exercise first with a heavy stress on the knee joint is not smart programming....

    Why not shift the deadlifts more towards the front of your training. It's propabbaly the most demanding CNS exercise you can do. So you'll need as much motor units you can recruit for it.
    The other lifts will take a logical back seat; which is actually fine with your training.

    IMHO the deadlift is a grossly overrated exercise for muscle growth. Strength wise and CNS stimulation it's awesome. But it always comes with a heavy, heavy toll. The CNS and overall stress is higher then what most lifters feel. Meaning the risk vs reward is completely out of wack with the deadlift.
    If you love it, keep doing it.
    But if you are using it for a specific goal, there are better exercises; especially with your height.
     
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  12. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Been on fire this week but didn't shoot any video, sorry about that. One back day I was pulling 100 lb lawnmowers for sets of 6. Last night we were doing Pendlay rows 135 x 10, 155 x 8, 165 x 3, 175 x 3, 185 x 3, and there were still reps in reserve. Two nights ago was chest, we started out for a volume day but ended up hitting my prior PR x 2 and it wasn't a PR type pyramid (this was incline bench). Jumped straight to dumbbell flat bench and worked up to 100 x 3, self launched very cleanly.

    BTW: I don't believe in terrible form, I refuse to jerk my body around etc. If I can't do it clean in tight form I can't do that weight yet. What has really helped drive my recent gains is a couple months of ultra critical tweaking of my form. Tiny adjustments in arm placement, footing, bar path, etc. Get those right and the prior limit just flies off the ground.

    I am thinking next week we will do some 135 lb scull crushers. We will also do a 185 incline bench. Both would be PRs for me. I will shoot videos of those and share.
     
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  13. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

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    Very nice. Form always over weight indeed!
     
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  14. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

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    Start lifting in the gym again after a 1 week vacation, followed by 1 week back and another 2 weeks of vacation. So realy 1 month of hardly any lifting (yeah, I know..!) and copious amounts of food and alcohol!
    Been tough and I'm aching everywhere.
    On top of that an injury I occured well over a month ago (technician slammed the door close whilst leaning on the rollcage of my Challenge on my elbow) has started to realy flare up.
    Feeling like an old man right now and "I should have never taken a break" -thoughts are running through my mind again.
    I understand we sometimes need a break from lifting, get some rest, etc etc, but dammit this also sucks!

    Back to active recovery right now... with no Ibuprofen (as that stuff in straight up poison)
     
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  15. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Yep, first week back is always tough. I end up having a week or up to about 3 off sometimes. I always treat it like a restart. The first week back is about getting everything moving again. Next couple of weeks are about volume, not max weight. And yes, by the end of week one I feel pretty battered and I am really looking forward to taking 2 days off over the weekend so I don't ache so much.

    As to the injury, I have had many, including severe tendonitis in the elbow. A few exercises I just don't do because there is no way they will ever work and not hurt or injure myself more, curls with a straight bar or reverse curls most any way are a couple of them. BUT I often use straps or VersaGrips for heavy pulls, it takes a lot of load off and as I have gotten stronger my tendonitis has slowly improved too. Lower weights that were a big no no before are now easy without the straps. I put on my belt early and the same for knee and/or elbow sleeves. Getting injured is MUCH worse than anything else. Put on the gear early and stay safe.
     
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  16. HotShoe

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    Hope you bounce back quick!

    I hate missing weeks. It’s especially tough for cardio and running. It only takes one week to lose a good percentage of your capacity. I was also sick two weeks ago. Still don’t feel 100% but I push thru best I can.

    We can rest when we’re dead. :)
     
  17. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

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    Yeah, thanks it’s just one of those things. Have to work around injuries. I’m part to blame myself as well. Decades of lifting with stupid form has left it’s mark…
    I started my BPC 157 protocol again which has yielded great results in the past.
     
  18. Skidkid

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  19. Thecadster

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    I have to tip my cap sir. You must get an incredible workout just dragging your enormous balls around all day. I simply don’t have the nutsack for singles. I use to love maxing out 20 years ago, but now that I am in my 50’s, singles come with too much risk and not near enough reward. I seldom go below 5 reps and I always leave one in the pocket.

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  20. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    See it how you want. For the record, I am 61 so doing well enough. I am 100% sure that isn't my single rep max or I wouldn't have pushed for it.
     
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  21. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

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    Again, kudos for pushing hard (for your age), but with all due respect, you can do better.
    It's tough for me to explain as I lack the photoshop skills.... but here goes.

    Your style is very tough on your joints, but also very limited on tricep involvement.
    Yes you can move a ton on weight in this way. Agreed. But I doubt you are doing it this way to set a new skull crusher record.

    Before you start the movement you have set up the bar in a 90degree angle of your body.
    Simply due to mechanics it's a very strong position. In fact you can probably set up a bar in this way with 2x the weight you are handling.
    Key here actually is when you hold this position and when you initiate the position ther eis very little tricep involvement. You lock down on your entire upper body and joint, but do little to 'isolate' your triceps. As a results you train your triceps with a very limited range AND you increase risk of injury almost 4x when making a small adjustment.
    Another key factor is also that you limited the range of motion due to how your elbow breaks. We train tricepos by extending our elbows and trying to get an angle that is much bigger than 90degrees. In fact, we want to aim to go past 180degrees.
    I will admit that's tough with skull crushers, but we can do better.

    Here's how:

    And the initial part is extremely difficult and only applies to serious and advanced lifters. Very FEW lifters will get this. I have 30+ years of experience and I have a tough time understanding it as well. No joke.
    Ok, her egoes....:

    You take 50% off the weight you are doing right now.

    Crap! Yup, you see that's the challenge here. Going lighter and keeping our ego in check.
    Again, no offense, I'm guilty as well!

    OK, once you've overcome that resentment/hate/doubt, we set things up correctly.

    First, you take the weight and roll back just like you did. However, before you start the actuall movement you move your arms about 30-45degrees back. So whne you start the movement your triceps already have 70-90% of the load already.
    This will set up your neurological parthways to fully focus on the triceps.
    You continue dropping the weight until the bar is below your head.
    Initial thinking is that this could become a back exercise but the opposite is true, you continue to bvend the elbow and thus get an even bigger stretch on your triceps. Your triceps will continue to be taxed, quite simply because that's how you initiated the movement.
    When you fire back up you go back to the starting position; but NEVER like your starting position. We want to load to remain on the triceps.

    Think of it like doing a HARD lock out with legg presses. No one does those as they will fok up your knees. You keep tension on your quads. So why do it on triceps!?

    When you try this simply just once, just once, you will feel a difference in mind muscle connection and pump that is night and day.
    I kid you not.

    We can debate sets and reps, volume, each and every day.
    But not proper form.

    Don't believe me, do a Youtube search on skull crushers with true excersie specialist and not Tiktok stars. They will all preach this form.

    Again, don't want to sound like an @ss here or try to win a Forum war.
    I nearly tore my tricep by doing this exact exercise incorrect becasue no one (at that time) showed me how to properly move and I simply did it just you are doing it right now.
    If you don't want to take my word for it, that's fine.
    Just doing 1 proper set will be enough to convince you.
    Or do a youtube/google search.

    I would genuingly be sorry if you got hurt and I didn't warn you.
    Elbow injuries are the absolute worst; together with shoulder injuriues and they will haunt you for a lifetime (like me!)
     
  22. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    #197 Skidkid, Sep 13, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2022
    I believe I understand exactly what you are talking about. You are saying move the upper arm from the 12 o-clock position to something like the 10 to 11 o-clock position. Then use a lower arm motion that goes from there down to approx. 7:00. I get that drives time under tension to near 100%. Like all lifts, the exact load varies across the move but I will skip the math. And yes, we do exactly that kind of exercise a lot. You know as well as I do that this kind of weight can't be moved without without building a base over along time with many reps. I always think of it as a pyramid, to hit the big number (peak) you need a LOT of work at the weights below that to build a base.

    I have no issue with going lighter, it is part of getting stronger. I frequently do drop sets to a light weight with huge time under tension. Last night we were doing flat bench, then dropped into incline dumbbells. The dumbbells we were doing pause reps (3 sec pause) alternated with 3 small pumps at the bottom of a rep. Obviously those are relatively light (50, 55, 60 in sets of 12, 10, 8); from there we drop into amrap sets and keep dropping ~50% in weight each step. The pump is great.

    NOTE: I often use exactly your approach when doing abs on an incline or even when using a setup where my body has nothing behind it (don't know the name of that equipment). I use it on other exercises as well to maintain time under tension. You can also slow the reps so they are 3-5 seconds in either or both directions.

    Even on the skull crusher night: I ran that weight just before that lift. I put it up a bit over 50% of the way and just didn't like the position for one of my elbows. Could I have put it up anyway, sure. BUT the injury isn't worth it so I dumped the weight; I can always come back and do it again. We waited ~2 min and I sent that one. So yes, exact positioning and form is critical to avoiding injuries.

    I too have had more injuries than I care to count, many not related to weight lifting. I have dislocated both elbows and one knee. One of the elbows was a complete capsule disruption with the ball 1/2 way up my forearm (I was in my teens then so forever ago). I have torn a bicep and ripped up a rotator cuff when benching ~350 at about 40 years old. I have crashed more motorcycles than most can imaging; including a head on with a car and 2 broadside hits. I have taken 40 ft whippers when rock climbing and hit the wall WAY too hard; I think there is still a bone chip floating around my my right elbow. The list goes on but you get the point; I am very aware of the weak points and I pay close attention to avoid big injuries. Well, at least I do now ;)
     
  23. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
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    Understood.
    I know exactly where you are coming from. Form over weight. But my point was not about going lighter.
    It was about using proper technique to load the correct muscle.

    Another gerat example if “ kipping” vs chin ups.
    In the end both aim to get your chin up over the bar, yet it’s easy to see what is the proper way to target you back (and biceps) and thus get a beter stimulus.

    Again, I just wish I could show you in real life.
    It’s not magic; just applied science and training mechanics.
    very, very, very few trainers understand how it actually works.
    We/they tend to focus too much on various sets and reps and wok loads, deloads, drop set, variation, etc, etc.
    When at the end of the day virtually no one actually says “ well hold on a bit. Everything starts with how to properly do an exercise in the first place!”

    It’s rare that few people master that art.
    We all are guilty of it. Myself included. I taught myself the improper way to do certain exercises… and had to pay the price for it later in life.
    Now after 30 years of going to the gym unlearning how to improper form is hard.
    Not only for mechanics, but also ego wise.
    It’s soo much more fun to do a 400pounds bench press than a 200 pound.
    Until something snaps…..

    Again, mind you everything I’m mentioning here applies on musclebuilding. This is not powerlifting advice!
    (Although the worlds best powerlifters will all claim you must master proper form to be able to add weight).
    Do me a favor, give my form a proper run the next workout. (Even to just shut me up) If possible film it.
    I have yet to meet someone that did the (proper) execution that didn’t say “ aha, this feels different (and better)!”
     
  24. Skidkid

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    #199 Skidkid, Sep 18, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
    I thought I would share a 'before' pic to help inspire everyone. It is a journey but it isn't that long of a road. There aren't many pics without a shirt when I was heavier; this one is from 2016. By the time I started the journey I weighed a bit more than this pic but not too much more.

    - I put myself on a diet in September 2017
    - About the end of January 2018 I had dropped 50 lbs
    - February 2018 I started back to the gym. Really just doing the basics. I did most of the muscle groups during each workout. I was going Mon, Wed, Fri.
    - Note: I was still controlling my caloric intake. My goal was to maintain weight as I got stronger. That would by definition mean I was still losing fat.
    - February 2019 I met a trainer who I thought could help me. I had never worked with a trainer and most obviously were not that good BUT watching this guy he really appeared to know what he was doing.
    - I was just looking to optimize what I was doing because as I got stronger the workouts were getting pretty long. We clicked so well that we have been working together ever since.

    The results you see didn't happen overnight. It is 5 years of hard work, commitment, pushing, and drive.

    And yes, that is my AMAZING wife. I am a lucky man in many ways.


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  25. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
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    That weight loss is mighty impressive.
    50lbs in 4-5 months. Over 10lbs per month is more or less the swwet spot of where you want to be with weight (fat) loss.
    I think most would be happy with your before pic....!
    Slow and steady wins the race that is called life.
     
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