Weird vibrating noise from exhaust | FerrariChat

Weird vibrating noise from exhaust

Discussion in '348/355' started by st4rk, Jun 26, 2015.

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  1. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    Not sure how to describe this. On throttle application, whether in gear, or in neutral, there is a weird vibrating/pulsing bassy noise. I would liken it to a typical boxer 4 sound from a WRX. As rpms increase the vibrating speeds up. If I'm WOT right towards redline that pretty much drowns out the sound.

    If you've ever heard a WRX with an aftermarket exhaust, you know what I'm talking about.

    I haven't ruled out bypass valve yet, car was too hot once I got home to manually prop it open with my hand.

    It almost sounds like it's something inside the muffler.

    I uploaded a video of it. It helps if you have some bassy speakers so you can pick up the vibrating sound I'm talking about.

    Any ideas? Thanks. And yeah, I'm going to pull the CEL, I have a feeling it's a p1448...

    http://fuchi.us/IMG_0512.MOV

    Youtube still processing the video, it will be here:
    http://youtu.be/x6YRO8CLRk0
     
  2. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 7, 2011
    447
  3. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
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    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    Bump.

    I ruled out the valve by wiring it open.
     
  4. eyboro

    eyboro Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 30, 2004
    989
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Eitan
    Take a look at your 02 sensor, I had the same code P0157, my bank 2 (driver side) rear sensor was loose.
     
  5. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
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    goth
    Interesting .... I think I'll check mine for the hell of it ... :)
     
  6. Rally guy

    Rally guy Rookie

    Aug 3, 2006
    36
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Robinson
    Check for a cracked hard-line air injection hose along the top, rear of the engine bay. Mine cracked in half and was banging around making odd noises.

    Rk
     
  7. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    The thing about the noise is it's not a "banging" or mechanical type of vibration. It's like constant pulsing noise in the exhaust. I'll be taking the exhaust apart today to investigate what's going on.
     
  8. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    489
    New Jersey
    Reach under the bypass valve and push the rod up with a wrench because it's very hard to reach. When you open up your bypass valve note how the sound changes. It is possible that your bypass valve is stuck slightly open which might account for this new sound.
     
  9. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    goth
    +1 ..... :)
     
  10. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
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    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    Yeah, tried that already. I pulled up on the valve and wrapped a wire around it to keep it open, still the same noise.

    I'm hoping it's the top exhaust pipe with the secondary cats that is causing the issue. If the weather plays nice today, I'll be diving into it after work, and diving into a 6pack of beer. :)
     
  11. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,785
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    Isolate the noise with a dowel or stethoscope to the ear placed on various suspect parts. You'll find it that way. Go upstream.
     
  12. Enzojr

    Enzojr F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2013
    14,001
    West of PDX
    Full Name:
    Tomy
    My Indy mechanic uses a 3' piece of hose, one end in the ear and touches the other end to suspect areas. He found a blown exhaust gasket in less than 30 seconds. I spent a couple hours trying to find the noise.
    It is clear plastic, 1/2 to 3/4 inch, simple and cheap.
    Be careful of hot parts, so right at start up may be best.
     
  13. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    Took off the mufflers today, I believe I *might* have the problem isolated, will continue work on it tomorrow. The biggest pain is taking off the bumper...

    I ran the car with open cats and I think the sound went away. I also took off the bypass valve. Running open cats was obnoxiously loud and sounded like utter CRAP.

    So obviously I recorded a quick sound clip :)
    https://youtu.be/it-MDoZv7l8
     
  14. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    goth
    Good to hear you are making progress and ruling things out ... :)
     
  15. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    I believe the problem is solved. While taking everything apart, the bottom two clamps on the muffler pipes were pretty loose. After putting everything back together and tightening the clamps down as much as possible (the nuts/bolts are small so I didn't want to break them) the sound is gone.

    I find the whole clamping mechanisms for those two exhaust points (where the cats meet the muffler) kinda weird, there's no gasket and the nuts and bolts are small (9mm?) so it seems like they're not strong enough to stay put and might come loose in the future.
     
  16. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    23,834
    WI
    Something else to consider is the tack welded heat shields on the secondary pipe. They work loose and can rattle around ever so slightly.
     
  17. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    The saga continues...

    The sound is still there, kinda. It clears up after 4000 rpms, and when in gear at speed it doesn't happen either. The weird pulsing sound happens at lower rpms and speeds under 25rpm. Sometimes it feels like there is hesitation from the throttle input and the car will kinda "hiccup" when taking off from a stop, happened at the end of my 25 minute commute today.

    I'm hoping it's the clamps leaking or something, I ordered new v-clamps off ebay, they come in next week.

    The piece of **** also threw a CEL at the end of my drive. I will pull it during lunch today.

    I hate this bloody car. I hate it so much.
     
  18. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    Serbia - Niš
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    Possibly ignition problem (weak spark). Ignition coil?
     
  19. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
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    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    Holy **** I think I figured it out! The CEL was yet again a bypass valve related one.

    I was inspecting everything in the engine bay in the parking lot at work trying to figure out if I missed a connection or left something unplugged.

    I double-checked the air pump area to make sure there were no loose hoses that would cause the bypass valve to not open. Upon grabbing and inspecting everything it led me to the tin can in the corner near the air pump.

    I felt the hoses and they were definitely on there solid. But as I tugged on them to check their connection the entire top part of the can came up. This was really odd to me because I thought it was a sealed can. I pulled up more and noticed a chunk missing from the top, and more pieces were rotting off and eventually I was pulling chunks of the top off.

    So now that leads me to believe the cause of p1448 codes I've been getting ever since I've owned this ******* car.

    Of course, this ****ty tin can sells for over 600 ****ing dollars on Ricambi. After some light searching you can pretty much replace it with any car vacuum canister, ~$45.
     
  20. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula 3
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    Feb 15, 2013
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    Joseph Troutwine
    Could there be a Rosso/Tan spyder with rear challenge grill, well sorted for sale in the near future???? Just wondering, that's all. :)
     
  21. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
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    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    Well sorted: No
    For sale: No
    Sitting on a dealership lot to be auctioned after being traded in: Yes
     
  22. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,053
    USA
    Before you throw money at the problem, do you have a full understanding of what a P1448 code means on a F355 with 5.2 Motronic? It means the one of three things: 1) the bypass valve is not functioning correctly...either it is open when it should be closed, or closed when it should be open. 2) or, the thermoprobe sensor is bad 3) or the catalyst sensor ECU is bad.

    Here is a rough idea of how the system works. The ECU is monitoring the exhaust temperatures just past the bypass valve to ensure it is working. The temperature rises when the valve opens, and drops when the valve closes. The ECU is looking for those correct temperature ranges, and if they are not within range it throws the code. Now the causes can be any of the three I listed above. But it is obvious from most of us owners, that probably 75% of the time (or more) the problem is a bad thermoprobe or catalyst ECU...not the bypass valve malfunctioning. But if you have the valve wired open (or closed) that will definitely throw a P1448 code. And if you leave the valve wired open continously, you will start getting codes for fuel trim issues, as the pre cat O2 sensors will go wonky from a lack of info, as very little exhaust will go pass them...everything will go through the bypass (which is apparently the path of least resistance).

    Diagnosis:
    Assuming your bypass valve is working correctly, the first step to diagnosing the problem is to see if the problem is with the catalyst ECU or the thermoprobe. Catalyst ECUs are more problematic that the thermoprobes, and if you still have the original ones to the car, which have black epoxy, that is more than likely your problem. Ferrari came out with ones filled with green epoxy that are more reliable, though still not perfect, then can still fail, but much less frequently than the black ones. I would start with swapping the catalyst ECU for the bypass valve with your right side catalyst ecu...I believe they are next to each other, so easy to just swap the connections for the power and thermoprobes. Try that and see if the problem moves or stays....that is the start to your diagnostics tree....you can probably figure out the rest... ;)
     
  23. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,624
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I would say chase this down first to see if it solves your problem. Buy a can of beans, eat the beans, and braze a couple of fittings on it to turn it into a vacuum ballast.
     
  24. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
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    Dec 7, 2011
    447
    Here are some good threads that led me to my diagnosis of the vacuum canister having a hole and not holding vacuum to open the valve:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q-sponsored-algar-ferrari/329228-help-needed-f355-vacuum-tank.html

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355-sponsored-bradan/448458-exhaust-valve-vacuum-pipe.html

    "The reason that a reservoir is needed is that the bypass valve is frequently actuated at wide open throttle, when there is no vacuum to speak of. The reservoir is evacuated by the intake manifold via non return check valves and the stored vacuum used to open the exhaust bypass when needed. If everything is in good shape the tank will hold vac for days."

    "However, one of the biggest issues with the bypass vacuum system on the early cars is corrosion of the vacuum reservoir. They used what looks like a big tin can, the kind that would contain Italian peeled chopped tomatoes from the supermarket. It is literally a food can.
    Anyway, it rusts and leaks causing the bypass to stop working, but worse, allows unmetered and unfiltered air into the inlet manifold which can play havoc with AFR, eg. Unstable idle, hesitation and general lumpiness. "


    New canister ordered from Jegs (NEVER thought I'd ever order a part from that site for a Ferrari, haha). Once the canister comes in I'll take pictures of my old one so you can see what happened to it.
     
  25. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    23,834
    WI
    Contact Bruce. I think he has a used one of those tanks.
     

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