I`m shocked.... again we lost 2 fchatters during a track day. Reminds me Jens & Amar who died also during our ferrarichat.com rallye / track day in June 2003. Thread in the GD section: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61681 Thread in the SoCal (where it sadly happened) section: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61677 My deepest condolences to their family & friends R.I.P. Wolfgang
OMG .. not another tragedy Poor families.... poor friends.... My deepest Condolences to both their families and friends!!!
Sad day indeed... I placed my condoleances to their families and friends in the general thread this morning... Like I said, very tragic that he was talking about something like this in a thread in the supercar section only days ago... RIP
It's a shame...pictures, names, rumours...this is not what a tragedy like this should be treated in a forum...just my thoughts about it
This is very sad, and there are a couple of highly worrying points that might be worth discussing in the wake of such a tragedy. 1) From the pictures it seems that the Porsche survived the crash amazingly well (don't forget it hit a concrete wall at 240 Km/h), what killed the occupants was most likely the sudden deceleration. I saw pictures of Ferrari F355s crashed at similar speeds, and you could barely recognize the make of the car from the disintegrated debris - in this sense the Porsche GT is a very solid car. Which brings me to the second point 2) WHY THE HELL does this so-called racetrack have a CONCRETE WALL in a point where cars can obviously spin out at high speed? It seems very likely that if they had a longer run-off area covered in sand, with flexible barriers at the end (a wall of tires, for example), a solid car such as the Porsche would have had the chance do decelerate more gradually without disintegrating its occupants. Personally I think the whole idea of track days has to be reviewed from a safety point of view. Everyone knows the Nurburgring and the risks involved,but if I go to a "normal" track I would expect a level of safety to make it worthwhile paying the entrance fee. In this particular case someone should think about sueing this "racetrack" and the jokers that manage it. It is a disgrace and an outrage, and it has caused the death of two totally innocent enthusiasts who were simply out to enjoy their car.
I agree with you, but it is a fact that it's still your choice to do a track day and you should know it's dangerous! I'm sure Ben knew that there was not the best run off area with tirewalls and so on! It may sound hard but that's just part of the game! I for myself will never drive the Ring for example because the risks are just too high! I also never just take a ride with anyone unless i know that it's a 'safe' track and a 'safe' driver!! But then again, what is a safe track and a safe driver!??? If i do a track day at Spa, and completely **** up at au rouge and the raidillon, it could be 'game over' also! But is is indeed a fact that if there was a decent run off area this crash would probably haven't ended this way! That Carrera GT seems an extremely solid car! These crashes shouldn't happen, but once in a while they do! I'm also very shocked every time i hear about a tragedy like this! We all should never forget that motor sport IS dangerous and 'it' can happen to anyone! Guy
Guy, you are right about being aware of the risks of track days, but the whole purpose of "track days" is to allow people to enjoy the performance of sportscars and supercars in relative safety compared to the unpredictable conditions of a road open to normal traffic. In this sense I cannot accept that a modern racetrack does not provide sufficient run-off areas and "soft" barriers if it is indeed feasible to install them. The Nurburgring and Spa are "historical" circuits and there is very little you can do to improve safety - it is up to the drivers to stay within their limits to avoid nasty accidents. These tracks are "tolerated" as they are because of their prestige and history, as long as people have the brains to restrain themselves a little bit when driving there. But if we are talking about "modern" tracks, it is INEXCUSABLE that they do not provide sufficient safety. I suggest that some professional driver should publish a "track day handbook" listing all the details and possible death-traps of the most popular racetrack in Europe and in the USA, without mercy for the most evident offenders. It would make track-day drivers more aware of where the critical points are, and maybe it would push some complacent track owners into actually improving safety when they see their earnings dwindling as better informed drivers start going elsewhere.
You're completely right about the fact that modern tracks should provide the best safety conditions! That track day handbook is a VERY good idea i think!! There even should be some kind of organisation which looks after the safety regulations and if any track doesn't provide enough then it MUST be closed! Of course there will still be accidents but i'm sure they won't all end the same way like this tragedy! So you're right that this really didn't have to end this way if only just...... Guy
It was a sad incident but if you go out on a track it's your responsibility to assess whether it's safe enough for you. If you can see a concrete retaining wall and no gravel trap to stop you slamming into it, then take note. Personally I track my bike and it's a fact of life that no circuit is 100% safe, although some are better than others. Talk about sueing the circuit owners and referring to those who manage it as "jokers" when you are nowhere near in possession of all the facts is IMHO irresponsible.
I am not sure the two tracks are comparable. The (north) Ring has not been used in F1 in 30 years because it had become too dangerous. On the other hand Spa has been modified several times and is considered by the FIA to be safe enough for F1 cars doing 350kmh.
