What are people actually transacting 355's for?

The price is based on many factors and it's hard to find exact comps for this reason. The market is a bit down now but still up from a few years ago.

 

Can you explain the last part of #3 to me?

 

(1) A driver with moderate miles (no garage queens, I intend on driving the hell out of it) So I'll assume you mean 35-45k miles. Not less than 30k.

(2) Indifferent to color combinations
Yellow with tan is cheaper as well as green and black. Color can have a $5k+ difference. It's really about what is out there on the market.


(3) Maintenance most important (worn bolsters, sticky parts don't bother as much. For a '95, Valve Guides, Headers, and recent belts are a must).
Are you saying you only want a 1995 or are you saying if it is a 1995 you want those sorted but if a 1996 or 1997 you are ok with the bronze valve guides, and factory unfixed headers?

(4) Prefer GTS, then GTB, then Spider

I assume F1 transmission is fine.

Important points:
Color
Trans
miles
history
maintenance

A 1995b 6 speed, red/tan, 30k miles, was listed at 95k and sold very quickly. It was in "A" shape with all the tools/covers/books, stickies, major, etc.. A 1999gts F1, red/tan, 40k miles, sold for 90k at auction.

For a red or black (or very hard to find blue), 6-speed, recent major, no drips/leaks, PPI/compression good, flawless history (no wreck, not ODO issues), 10 years of mainentance receipts showing it was well taken care of and an overall appearance of an unmodified (exhaust ok), car at a B+ or A level, these are $80k+.

Take off $5k for a non-popular color
Take off $0-5k for F1
Take off $5k for over 25k miles and under 40k miles
Take off $5-10k for poor maintenance AND no major within 2 ish years
Take off $2k for no books/tools/covers

Dealers are paying 55-60k at best for a B level car that presents very well in a good color, records, etc. I think they are paying upto 70k for "A" cars but I actually think those are all consignment. Expect to spend $10k on a B car within a year. (annual, books, tools, covers, paint correction, tires, small fixes, hoses, connectors, cv boots, missing bolts and small parts. etc. This would not include upgrades (exhaust/headers), fixing stickies, or major fixes like belts or guides but would include a few surprises.

So do you buy an 80-90k no apologies berlinetta car or a car 10-20k less that will need 5-15k in help if you want to make it that no apologies car.

If you want cheap, get a green or silver convertible without records, and is in "driver" (b-) shape. Theses might be as low 57-64k.

 

Except for $0, That's Baloney

 

There are at least 3 spyders on ebay that should be able to be purchased for less than 60k.

My advice:
Find 3 cars you like
Get the cash ready to go (or finance)
Look at the car and drive it (or have a trusted and smart 355 friend do it)
Offer your price where it will be a quick sale if the PPI/compression comes back as a pass
You organize the PPI/compression and pay for it
You organize the shipping and pay for it
Make it a very easy and quick experience for the seller and you will get the best price. If you have 37 email and 14 phone calls and 3 visits and continually go back Columbo style with "one more question" people start ignoring you.

No matter what you buy have 5-15k in cash for fixes over the next year.

 

Says a guy with an F1 (from a guy with a 6speed) lol

I put the $0 for you . Whether it is baloney or not and whether you have to change the belts every 3 years and oil changes are $3000, it's out there.

 

Alex - as a guy who's followed the market for a long time, I can tell you that sure - there is a gated craze and set of buyers but one of the sales near the upper end was an F1

 

The funny thing is that for the higher end of the 355 market (low mileage), F1s are pretty close to stick shift. When it comes to the 50-70k cars, the stick shifts have a slight premium it seems. I'm guessing that's because most of that demographic plans on driving them and maintenance is a bit more of an issue so they don't want to have the common F1 problems.

As far as the OP's question goes, if you're ok with a Berlinetta you should be able to find one for 65-75k with your demands. Spider a bit less and GTS a bit more.

 

How many speeds does an F1 have?

Ok. Carry on....

 

A month ago I talked with a gent who has a well sorted GTB driver for sale. I believe it can be had in the low to mid 60's. PM me if you would like his contact info.

 

I agree that the the "manual" is more sought after than an "F1" crowd is probably on the lower end of a range and a reasonable percentage of their decision is based on perceived maintenance with an F1 as compared to a manual. So few sales where the real details are really known (actual selling price) to have enough data.

As to Dave's point, F1 sales are solid and top quality cars go for top quality money no matter the trans.

I think flat_plane_eddie hit on a piece there which is lower cost buyers are looking for lower perceived maintenance.

 

F1 GTS is the rarest followed by the F1 Berlinetta I believe.

Not including Challenge / Fiorano's of course.

The manual craze / price difference won't last another decade in my opinion. Ferrari sells a lot more cars now that there's sequential automatic transmissions available...and when those types of buyers want a classic, the oldest one they can get will be a 355, and with about 1600 or so GTS/Berlinettas made with an F1, they'll probably be worth much more than the relatively common manuals.

The F1 system isn't very complicated either. Maintenance is more than the manual, yes, but if you're smart about it the cost of parts is significantly less than going to Ferrari direct.

 

The last thing I want to do is upset the F1 guys. I have a "car neighbor" with an F1 GTS, the rarest. Red/Tan. Pretty sure it is or could be Classiche Certified - I here that is a thing? He may really have something, from a pure numbers point of view, it is low production.

BUT, everyone who owns an F1 has a story....went to drive it, no go, no gears lights, stuck, yada, yada. Please do not skewer me Dave. I know the appeal and I am with you, I am just saying that while rare, they are more expensive and problematic. They tend to cause more no drive situations, from what I see and read.

F1 was a nearly $10k option and it was earth shattering when Ferrari brought it to market. It set the bar and today's offerings are incredible. I would much prefer a new Ferrari system or Porsche PDK for daily driving.

Yet gated F355's have up to a $50k add per Hagerty valuation, why? Has to be valid reason if not a little inflated, but it is true that gated cars have more value/desire. That could change in the coming years, but I do not see that.

The debate will rage on.


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50k add isn't true. Haggerty is not a good gauge on values.
The larger descrepencies in value are found with later models because the F1 far outnumbered the manual versions. 360, 575, 456, 612, 599 and 430.

The manual 355 is significantly more common than the F1 counterparts.

Yes, the manual is cheaper to own...but I wouldn't let that deter someone who is handy with a wrench to walk away from an F1.

My 360 pump replacement was sub-$300 usd and took me an hour to replace. Accumulators can be had for $100. The system can be bled yourself if you're inclined. Only expensive disaster scenario is the F1 ECU giving out. The actuator itself can be rebuilt now for less than half the cost of a new/replacement...and from my research those offering the rebuild service are making a racket.

As time goes on I think it is likely that these systems will get even cheaper to maintain. They're not as complicated as they first seem. I'd be willing to bet that you could program a raspberry Pi to control the F1 actuator if your ecu were to give out. Eventually someone will decide to tackle that problem I'm sure.

 

Rob, thus far my F1 is flawless and has never had an issue. I'm not in denial - I know it some point it probably will need work and I'm fine with it.

As far as Hagerty - they are a total joke but I will say they did help me get $130K agreed value insurance on my F1. Yes, on my F1.

If you look at their valuation they have an adder for 6 speeds. Guess what? An F1 is a 6 speed

 

In 1985 I walked into a Ferrari dealer intending to buy a 308 GTS QV. I took one look at the GTS with top on, and another look with the top off and said to the salesman, This is what I though I wanted but it's ugly. Then he showed me a GTB in the shop. Beautiful. I'll take it. We then had a long discussion about availability, being that only 29 GTBs were made for North America in 85. But they found one for me, cause no body really wanted a GTB in the USA. Loved the car, still own it and still love if. But it taught me a serious lesson. Don't buy a sports car that the top doesn't come off or go down. I understand if you want to track your car that a B may be a better choice. But for touring I can not understand why anyone would want to be surrounded by steel when they can be out in the open air surrounded by that glorious Ferrari sound. Some say that the B is prettier. A matter of opinion and, see my introduction above. Plus, you can't see the lines of the car when you are driving it. When driving you hear and feel the car, and you can do that better in a spider. As for rarity, for gated cars, 3800+ Bs, 2600+ spiders and 2000+GTS; F1 cars, 1054 spider, 1042 Bs, 529 GTS.

Average 2017 sale prices at auctions across all models.

1999 Ferrari F355 $74,814
1999 Ferrari F355 Serie Fiorano $80,300
1997 Ferrari F355 $63,895
1998 Ferrari F355 $71,552
1996 Ferrari F355 $77,898
1995 Ferrari F355 $67,545

 

John, could not agree more!
When I was looking for my new to me 360 the model I wanted was the Modena. My good friend and counsel Bruce asked why? I told him my last 2 Ferraris were spiders, time for a change. He asked a simple question: Driving my 348 spider then my 355 spider how often was the top up? I thought about it and answered 5%. He then asked, why buy a coupe?

 

To clarify, I am not supporting Hagerty's evaluation. I am just showing on paper that they view the 355 and 360 gated cars as being more valuable. Maybe the actual number is $50, $500, $5000 or $500,000 [emoji12]

Yes, the F1 has been tackled in some respects and it would be cool if someone would crack the ECU.

I bought my first Ferrari the 348, because it was cheap and simple. I was afraid of owning a 355. Not anymore. The 348 is for sale, cheap and I may place it on BaT soon. Needs a new home.

As to 355 market. I want it to go up. It will. No telling when, but it will. It may retract again, but long term should go up. 10-15 years and that may be just inflation??

Me and Eddie know what we transacted the GTS for and I think I got a fair deal and he probably wish he had gotten more and it is probably worth more. I would not sell it for what I paid for it. I have added new tires, new brakes and have a spare complete set of factory brakes NIB - Thanks Dave! And I am doing full paint correction and Quartz coating with SpeedShield in Dallas Monday. I also addressed some minor interior items and installed a very clean hidden audio system not modifying the interior or appearance.

I have one issue which is a brake light that flickers and then sets ABS light. Thought it was the pad sensors which I replaced and repaired. I now think it is the Fluid level sensor? It will come and go. I cleaned all contacts to ABS computer as well as all brake related wiring. I added the fancy contact serum from Canada in hopes that is what it is, but alas Flicker flicker set. Then goes away for other drives [emoji848]


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Given a 95 with single stage paint, I'd be very careful and get a paint meter on it first. If you have anything less than .006" - don't touch it. These cars have thin paint and if someone has buffed it prior, you are not going to have enough material.

 

1996 - my car is single stage. Yep then fragile, brittle paint. But owning a collision center and dealing with paint for 25 years, I think I got it. It can handle proper care and the coating will be a huge benefit. A traditional clear bra would peel the paint right off.

I am having my buddy do it for the invoice and to return the favor on some referrals. I know the GTS top has plenty of paint on it - we did not do it, but it has been color matched.


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Rob - you need to correct your profile
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Oops! Never noticed my typing error. That is why you are a great details guy!


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I bought a 45,000 mile 1997 spider in October of last year. Sales price was $55,000 but I have spent quite a bit on maintenance since then.

 

I am in the market for one now. Prices seem to be all over. It's hard to get a good sense of it. I do know of a 95 Berlinetta, gated, with 35,000 miles I just missed out on that sold for 45K. It seems to me that cars are selling far below most asking prices. Just my observation.