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What are TRs REALLY selling for?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by PGrenier, Aug 21, 2017.

  1. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jul 25, 2008
    13,588
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    It looks to me that this discussion is only about the high prices for TR's.

    But imo, only high prices are for the very few ... not most of the TR's ...

    I see them go for far under K$100 ... this because maintenance hours and parts are frightfully expensive ...
     
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  3. GTRacing

    GTRacing Rookie

    Dec 17, 2007
    9
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Carlo Pascolo
    Hello PGrenier and everyone,

    We are speaking about Ferrari Post 70's. The TR 84/91 is an iconic car, even if produced in a "relative high quantity" (7177 cars), however nobody knows exactly how many are still existing. It's a 30 years old car with a fantastic 12-Flat, 390 HP, reaching 295 km/h, with the famous ferrari manual transmission, an incredibile design by Pininfarina (see picture of Melvok), built by Scaglietti and the last car with the F40 released by Enzo Ferrari. This car was every child's dream in the 90's.

    Often and unfortunately the value of a car is determined by the produced quantity. Lot of people says that the production is too high and maintenance costs are too high. All old Ferrari have high maintenance costs, particularly for spare parts because the spare parts market is monitored by speculators and not enthusiasts.

    If so, what can we say (e.g.) for the Porsche 356, produced 76313 time, powered by an engine of 70 HP to 110 HP and reaching with the highest difficulty 150 km/h? Why did a good exemplar costs more than K€ 120?

    Today the market value of the TR is K€ 150 (condition 1) and K€ 120 (condition 2) and for me it is too low for this amazing car. The TR is the successor of the BB 512 which is proposed at the moment at K€ 250. Don't forget that nobody wanted to buy the Dino 246 GT/GTS (3761 produced) at K€ 50 around 5 years ago and now people are paying K€ 400/ K€ 500. Everybody knows the prices of some Ferrari 5 to 10 years ago:

    365 GTB Daytona: K€ 180 to 220 (now K€ 700)
    Dino 246 GTS: K$ 50 (now K€ 400)
    512 BBi: K€ 80 (now K€ 250)
    F40: K€ 300 (now K€ 1 Mio)
    288 GTO: K$ 300 (now K€ 2 Mio)
    Testarossa: K$ 60 (will reach ?)

    I would never sell under K€ 100.... wait a little more ...
     
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  4. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    16,887
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    call a couple of Ferrari dealers. Ask them for a ball park trade in value against say a late f430 or early 458. But be sure to tell them you are a cash buyer, no financing needed. The trade in value will give you a true honest to goodness idea of what these cars are actually trading for between dealers and whole salers. Don't be surprised if you get numbers between the 70-80k mark. The dealer will mark the car up and advertise it for 110-120k, yet settle on a deal for 90k.
     
  5. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    25,861
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    Avvocato
    I'm assuming you are quoting US dollars ?
     
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  6. GTRacing

    GTRacing Rookie

    Dec 17, 2007
    9
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Carlo Pascolo
    I agree 100% with the comment of tbakowsky. The dealer trade it for K€ 80 and sell it for K€ 120. He put K€ 40 in the pocket, without doing nothing and this is the problem! Therefore if you want to sell, sell it only to private guy at K€ 100. So the seller and the new buyer are happy.

    Otherwise keep it and each km driven with this car has more value then money on your bank account!
     
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  8. MM355

    MM355 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2008
    1,139
    GMT + 3
    You forgot to mention that the Testarossa 12 cylinder was originally derived from the Ferrari F1 car of the 70's & 80's the Ferrari 312T series and its derivatives.
     
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  9. ASK328

    ASK328 Formula 3

    Sep 23, 2005
    2,354
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    This. The MKT is dead on these cars, no one likes to buy in a deflationary mkt - why would you? - next month you can buy it for less.
     
  10. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    16,887
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Yes..US dollars..that would be between 91k and a 104k in Canadian funds going by a rate at 1.3..still strong money. I think these cars will settle around that mark. The days of the 35-50k testarossa are long gone. Owners who bought at those prices should be VERY happy with their investment..
     
  11. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    16,887
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    This is true..however those facts have been lost to many. Unfortunately it has zero effect on value. The value of the car is in its name, and when it was produced, during the Enzo era. The look of the car also helps just a wee bit also..:)
     
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  13. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,794
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Sold mine in January. 1991 38K miles. 93K plus 6,000 for the luggage. Upgraded differential and a year and a half old major service.
     
  14. MaseratiMike

    MaseratiMike Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2016
    322
    UK
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Looks like these cars are higher priced in the US along with service costs, when compared to the UK. The following car didn't meet its reserve price yesterday on Ebay in the US but received a final bid price of $180K USD (£132.5k GBP):

    • VIN:
      ZFFLM40A8R0097271
    • Year:
      1994
    • Make:
      Ferrari
    • Model:
      512
    • Mileage:
      28300
     

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  15. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    8,095
    SF
    I believe that is the same car that is listed on this site and recently offered to FChat members for $239,000.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1994-512tr-18-500-miles-red-black.551276/

    I wish I was in the market, car has a lot going for it. (94 with better diff, no motorized belts, belt service included)
     
  16. HOF Ferrari

    HOF Ferrari Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2007
    1,665
    Canton, Ohio
    Full Name:
    AFG
    It was mine that sold at mecum for $130k hammer price..1991 Red/tan, luggage set, full service done 2 years ago...
     
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  17. Agreed:
    I did the test, gullwing motors and beverly hills car clug quoted me 77k for my 88 with 24 k miles.
    Ferrari gave me 85k,
    Dealer would have soldt it 120k, likely sold at 110k.
    Got mine at 100k


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 26, 2011
    3,447
    Pittsburgh, PA
    The '94 512TR at Atlantis is the best one on the U.S. market at the moment. There is also a '92 in Holland, The Gallery Brummen, with low miles and carrier gear upgrade for a very nice price.
     
  19. Agreed!!! See my responses:

    For my 88,serviced,23k miles
    Gullwing motors would give me 77k
    Ferrari dealer as trade in 85k
    Private party would sell for 100k
    Dealer asks 120 but likely get 110k


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  20. Parnelli

    Parnelli Formula Junior
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    Aug 30, 2013
    957
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Greg P
  21. raysur

    raysur Formula Junior
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    May 3, 2008
    483
    So. Cal.
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    That interior is hideous. Brown, creme and burgundy.
     
  22. Parnelli

    Parnelli Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 30, 2013
    957
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Greg P
    The interior definitely has an '80's look to it :)

    I'm actually going to be in LA this weekend celebrating my 51st birthday with my best bud from college. We happen to stay only a mile away from this classic auto dealer. I'll stop by on Saturday AM to look at it in person.
     
  23. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    8,095
    SF
    I will always love those red carpets with almost anything!
     
  24. raysur

    raysur Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 3, 2008
    483
    So. Cal.
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    I'm with you. Red isn't the problem. This car needs to pick two colors and stick with it.

    Happy early birthday and have fun in LA! Hopefully you can check out a few local car shows while you're out here. Good luck with your car search.
     
  25. Arguably the best sell of the year!!


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  26. blkdiablo33

    blkdiablo33 F1 Rookie

    Jul 12, 2004
    3,888
    Happy birthday did u check out the tr?
     
  27. Parnelli

    Parnelli Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 30, 2013
    957
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Greg P
    Blk-

    Thanks for the birthday wishes! The weekend with my buddy in LA was awesome.....as it always is with him! He's a first class dude and I am proud to be friends with him for 30 years.

    Yes, I did go see/drive the car. First, let me give a big shout out to Heritage Classics (I have ZERO affiliation with them). Irv and Devon were kind enough to take my phone calls last week to educate me on the car. And when I called them after I landed at LAX they said to come on over and that the car would be ready for me to drive! Wow, I wasn't really expecting that as this car only has 4,300 miles on it. But who was I to say no :)

    The good news:

    -The car showed really well. Paint was basically flawless. Wheels too. The red interior carpet was actually very nice. Pictures do not do the interior justice. I am guessing red interior is difficult to photograph.

    -Full engine out and new clutch redone recently. (No aftermarket exhaust on this particular car).

    I've mentioned this before but one of my favorite cities in the world is Beverly Hills. So you can imagine the smile on my face while driving the TR down Sunset Boulevard and past the pink Beverly Hills Hotel on a sunny Friday afternoon.

    The "not so good news" (for me specifically):

    -TR's are hard to drive! Steering is really difficult! I live in an urban area and park daily in a tight parking space/ramp at the office. I can't even imagine how difficult it would be for me to drive that thing in/out of my office parking ramp.

    -The car has to "warm up" before you can/should put it in second gear. Do I really want to deal with that every time I want to use the car? (No). It was suggested that I shift directly from 1st to 3rd gear until it warmed up. Is that common??

    Most of my trips are pretty short. The commute to the office is only 9 minutes. Heck, my new Porsche 911 barely warms up in that short of time :)
    (I realize that the TR wasn't necessarily meant for work commutes....but I'd still like to be able to do so).

    -headroom is OK at best. We had a difficult time adjusting the seats to give me more. I didn't want to put the sales guys thru to much of a hassle fixing them so I just drove with the seat leaning back a bit too much (picture how some people drive thru the 'hood. Enough said :))

    -the interior of the car seemed a bit "noisy" as if there was some large fan noise or something coming from the engine behind the seats? Keep in mind that I was driving an unknown car in a busy city while talking to a sales guy that I do not know all at the same time. Not the bet time to truly analyze the sounds I guess. Is that "fan noise" common, though?

    -Clutch. While somewhat new it still seemed stiff (compared to what I am used to obviously). Pedals seem in a bit of an award position too.


    So, net net, if u are looking for an extremely low mile red '91 TR for a fantastic price (asking $129K....maybe could be bought for $120K ??) then this is a car that you should seriously consider.

    But for me? Unfortunately I just can't justify spending that much money on a car with so many "driving limitations" to it :(
     
  28. Well it depends for the clutch...
    It is recommended to do. 1-3 for the first. 10minutes.
    Mine has ZERO issue and it all goes like butter but i still do it bc my mechanics says so.
    Low mileage car are good but sitting is bad, the synchro on this car could be dammaged or gearbox.
    Tough to drive? Yes and no, after a while u get it. Its all about finding the good grip on ur clutch to always keep her rolling.
    Noise inside? Expected
    Standard exhaust well its good for origin but they sound better with aftermarket...
    129k will likely sell for around 120k i agree.
    Market is soft right now;)


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